Honeycomb on crown board

[sloydall]

Hi all, I went to check a hive today and remove fondant, check for stores etc... But found that there was honeycomb built on the crown board. The bees seemed very active and quite angry so I decided to close up the hive and ask for advice from you and my mentor before I do anything!

My initial thoughts are that they need a super on top as they are running out of room; I'm guessing I would need to check the frames in the brood box to decide this but should I move the crown board as I would normally would and leave it front of the entrance sit the honeycomb attached so I can inspect?

Should I be smoking my bees?
Thanks.

 

[Bram]

Hi a bit of comb on the crown board is not unusual, the bees will be active as its been mild recently and they will have be out collecting pollen , its a bit to early to put a super on yet and I would leave well alone for a couple of weeks , a puff of smoke when you do your first and subsequent inspections is the only time you need to be smoking the bees and others (I hope) will no doubt be along to offer possibly more informed and in depth advice
bram

 

[Cazza]

I removed comb yesterday from an empty Neopoll feed container above a hole in the board. The bees have plenty of sideways space so a super is not required yet. I suspect yours are the same.

Smoking is entirely up to you and the temper of your bees. I usually smoke down from the crownboard as I open up but sometimes not at all and sometimes from the bottom. Depends whether I want to drive the bees up or down or not. Best procedure is to light the smoker
and use if required but make sure it is lit in case you do need it.
Cazza

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Hi all, I went to check a hive today and remove fondant, check for stores etc... But found that there was honeycomb built on the crown board. The bees seemed very active and quite angry so I decided to close up the hive and ask for advice from you and my mentor before I do anything!

My initial thoughts are that they need a super on top as they are running out of room; I'm guessing I would need to check the frames in the brood box to decide this but should I move the crown board as I would normally would and leave it front of the entrance sit the honeycomb attached so I can inspect?

Should I be smoking my bees?
Thanks.

I'm slightly confused by your wording. Are you saying you have comb "on top" of the crown board since you ask about moving the crown board in the same post? If it is on top is it confined to a fondant container or unconfined within the roof space in which case you may have a leaky hive.
Alternatively is the comb below the crown board which suggests your "bee space" is incorrect.
Super addition has been mentioned in another post recently but it's unlikely your hive needs one yet.
Your mentor will be best placed to give guidance but it's good to be thinking and asking.
Smoking is another can of worms but the idea is to trick the bees into thinking there may be a forest fire threatening the hive so they fill up with honey in case evacuation is necessary. When they are bloated with honey they are too full for aggression (or so I am told) Some people spray with water instead of smoking the bees, others have slow, calm methods and do neither.
At the end of the day its a matter of experience and choice. Just don't pump vast volumes of smoke into the hive, a whiff or two should be sufficient.

 

[MartinL]

Hi all, I went to check a hive today and remove fondant, check for stores etc... But found that there was honeycomb built on the crown board. The bees seemed very active and quite angry so I decided to close up the hive and ask for advice from you and my mentor before I do anything!

My initial thoughts are that they need a super on top as they are running out of room; I'm guessing I would need to check the frames in the brood box to decide this but should I move the crown board as I would normally would and leave it front of the entrance sit the honeycomb attached so I can inspect?

Should I be smoking my bees?
Thanks.

Was the comb on the top, or underneath, (where you shouldn't be just yet)?

Although difficult to resist, I wouldn't be smoking them until I go for a proper inspection. Not far away now but poking them around is always going to p!$$ them off!
I have to do a cut-out soon and not looking forward to being cramped in the pub loft with loads of angry bees. Don't think wellies would be an option and sure to get stung when I squash them behind my knees!

Once they're angry (like when you open and chill their home) smoke won't be much help!

 

[sloydall]

Replies to everyone so far....

Bram - thanks for advice ....I shouldn't panic just yet.
Cazza - thanks for the advice, I do like to have the smoker just incase
Gilberdyke John and MartinL - the comb is inside an empty super underneath the crown board. I had the empty super on around the fondant I was feeding them; I put the fondant directly on the bars of the hive as I didn't realise that it should be fed from a container through the crown board hole...I watched a clip on YouTube about fondant feeding and they did it straight on to the hive frames. As a result the bees are just filing up an empty super.
On the plus side it is really quite beautiful however I'll have to cut it out as it is in the way. I was going to cut it out today but it is covered in bees and I wasn't sure how to disperse them in order to cut it out, I was also concerned that I might upset the queen as it would take me a while to cut it out and the whole brood would get too cold. So my question is when should I cut it out as they are likely to add to it and the cutting out job will get bigger?

MartinL - yes I was under the crownboard as I had been advised that doing an inspection was ok as it has been quite warm. Do you think I shouldn't be checking them yet? Also where are your bees? Are they inside a pub loft?

Any advice would be gratefully accepted, I have contacted my mentor but I've not heard back yet. Thanks.

 

[sharonh]

Can you take a pic of it, so can see how much comb is there?
I'm sure someone will be able to advise if they can see what Is there & how much.

Sharon

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Bram - thanks for advice ....I shouldn't panic just yet.
Cazza - thanks for the advice, I do like to have the smoker just incase
Gilberdyke John and MartinL - the comb is inside an empty super underneath the crown board. I had the empty super on around the fondant I was feeding them; I put the fondant directly on the bars of the hive as I didn't realise that it should be fed from a container through the crown board hole...I watched a clip on YouTube about fondant feeding and they did it straight on to the hive frames. As a result the bees are just filing up an empty super.
On the plus side it is really quite beautiful however I'll have to cut it out as it is in the way. I was going to cut it out today but it is covered in bees and I wasn't sure how to disperse them in order to cut it out, I was also concerned that I might upset the queen as it would take me a while to cut it out and the whole brood would get too cold. So my question is when should I cut it out as they are likely to add to it and the cutting out job will get bigger?

MartinL - yes I was under the crownboard as I had been advised that doing an inspection was ok as it has been quite warm. Do you think I shouldn't be checking them yet? Also where are your bees? Are they inside a pub loft?

Any advice would be gratefully accepted, I have contacted my mentor but I've not heard back yet. Thanks.

I use a modified clear crown board (homemade) on my hives with one side having a single beespace rim and the other a 20mm rim which gives room to feed fondant direct on the top bars of the frames. This lets me feed straight on top of the cluster while permitting non-disturbance checking of the consumption and avoiding the situation you find yourself in.
I also have a 25mm hole in the centre of the clear sheet which is normally covered with a blanking piece but to feed syrup I use the board with beespace down and a rapid feeder located over the open hole.
Purists please don't tell us its not a crownboard if it has a hole in it
Using a super as a fondant eke is liable to tempt the bees to build into the space especially when its where the warm air ends up.
As to rectifying your situation its a matter of picking the first "warm enough" day and getting on with it. Others may have different ideas and I am probably laying myself wide open to being shot down in flames, but I would separate the problem super from the underlying hive maybe with judicious use of a long breadsaw to detach the combs, cover the hive to keep heat in while you work, have a few frames with elastic bands to fit any combs you find with viable brood into and pop them into an empty brood box, covering these frames up as you go and watching carefully for the queen. If she is in the top comb catch her in a clip to place in the original brood box. Assess what you have got with a view to putting more frames of drawn comb or foundation into the box to fill available space and place this box under your hive. The rescued brood can hatch and be cared for by the colony and depending on their progress you will possibly end up with double brood or they could all end up in the top brood box and you can remove the bottom box later. If you want to see how to put comb into a frame with elastic bands try J P the beeman swarm removal on youtube.
Plenty of possible problems so follow your mentor! It's going to be a fine balance between acting quickly enough and avoiding the adverse results of losing heat from the hive at a critical time of year.