Honey jars

[pargyle]

When I spoke to them a few years ago they told me they supplied all their 12oz hars with the lids fitted. a PITA if you have a load to bottle.

Shouldn't worry me with my massive crop of 240lbs then ! Yet to hit your dizzy heights of measures in tonnes !

 

[ericbeaumont]

I must have misunderstood the bit about them being loosely assembled

Understandable confusion: F&H shrink-wrap all jar packs. Jars with standard gold lids arrive with lids fitted loosely, but lids of other colours arrive separately in a bag. I use silver lids and it's not that big a job to divvy them up.

 

[rolande]

Black lid with bee on a white flower is a nice touch, in my eyes gives a better presentation then a solid lid colour for the same cost factor.. Though gets partly obscured with my tamper label,

Thornes do a see-through tamper label which works well with those lids.

 

[Apple]

When I spoke to them a few years ago they told me they supplied all their 12oz hars with the lids fitted. a PITA if you have a load to bottle.

Advice on an automatic or semi automatic lid-putter-onnering machine.... SWMBO is complaining of RSD?

Honey jars are single use due to the type of glass used in manufacture, our TS advice is to only use new and to wash before use.

Best price is Compak by the pallet... but you need the space to store and a pallet truck as the delivery firm will now only unload "at the gate".
Best price for small drops is C W Jones

Chons da

 

[Marilyn J]

Have you tried Wynne Jones here in North Wales. They give a discount for the local association, not sure about BBKA C. Wynne Jones | Beekeeping Supplies UK | Bottles and Jars

 

[Wildwoods]

I’ve always found C Wynne Jones very reasonable. Our association bulk buy, I think from F&H but I found when I bought a batch through our association a number of the jars had black marks. These were from the manufacturing process I assume

 

[Amari]

Best price is Compak by the pallet... but you need the space to store and a pallet truck as the delivery firm will now only unload "at the gate".
Best price for small drops is C W Jones
Chons da

Yes, £25.95/72 1lb jars at CWJ cf £34.72 with F&H. So I proceeded to order two gross with CWJ but then found only two methods of delivery: Personal pick-up or £32 by courier - no other options!!
I did not proceed.......

 

[North End Bees]

Honey jars are single use due to the type of glass used in manufacture, our TS advice is to only use new and to wash before use.

What is it about the type of glass which makes it single use? That doesn't sound very eco-friendly.

I buy F&H through the association. Trays of 33 shrink-wrapped with lids already on. I always buy extra packs of lids (bags of 50 cost about £3.50 I think).
Regular customers often give me back the empty jars, which then go through the dishwasher and get a new lid.

I understand not reusing metal lids (acid corrosion) but what is wrong with reusing glass jars?

 

[Apple]

In a previous life (one of many!) I was a technician at British Industrial Sand in Redhill Surrey
We supplied many types of glass making fine silica sands for many purposes, sold on to the bottle and glass making industry.
Milk bottles were manufactured to reused many times and used different glass to jam jar glass.( and used a foil enclosure)

Did spend some time liaising on behalf of BIS with the ?Packaging Research Establisment? in Leatherhead ( think it has now changed its name?) They had a machine for testing lids on jars as they could cause a thin rim of glass to shatter into shards, all very high tech, but jars were not made to reuse... I believe the rim on the jars would only take one lid fitting, subsequent refitting (after bottling product) could cause weakness, they even worked out how many times the consumer would take the lid off and refit it... but of course not with the force that the machine fitted the lid!

Coffee break over... now to unblock the filter on the dust extractor... 60 ekes made 30 to go!

Chons da

 

[peterpullham]

If anyone wants small quantities of 1.5oz jars ,Wilko have them at £4.00 for 20

 

[Swarm]

CWJ every time for me, they offer decent prices and free delivery on orders over £200.

 

[North End Bees]

Milk bottles were manufactured to reused many times and used different glass to jam jar glass.( and used a foil enclosure)

Did spend some time liaising on behalf of BIS with the ?Packaging Research Establisment? in Leatherhead ( think it has now changed its name?) They had a machine for testing lids on jars as they could cause a thin rim of glass to shatter into shards, all very high tech, but jars were not made to reuse... I believe the rim on the jars would only take one lid fitting, subsequent refitting (after bottling product) could cause weakness, they even worked out how many times the consumer would take the lid off and refit it... but of course not with the force that the machine fitted the lid!

Well that's very disappointing reading. I thought the move back to glass from plastic was to move away from the throwaway society norm.

Having said that, I'm sure the majority of home honey bottlers and jam makers do reuse jars.

The lids of the F&H jars have the 4-point contacts for grip rather than a full twist. If overtightened the lid distorts before the glass could produce shards.

 

[user 6127]

Yes, £25.95/72 1lb jars at CWJ cf £34.72 with F&H. So I proceeded to order two gross with CWJ but then found only two methods of delivery: Personal pick-up or £32 by courier - no other options!!
I did not proceed.......

I ordered some jars from CWJ. They used APC as a courier to get them to us.

APC text on day of delivery, to say they would arrive between 2 and 4. Arrived at 12, and wouldn't leave on doorstep (we have a ring doorbell), as sender requires you to be in.

Arranged re-delivery for next day. Again, text us to say between 2 and 4, and arrived at about 11.30 this time. Again, no one in, and driver refused to leave on doorstep 'sender requires you to sign for them', 'Can't you sign for them? Just leave them there?' 'No, more than my jobs worth......'.

I went mental at APC over the phone and Twitter, and they said their hands are tied. They can only leave, if the sender marks the package as being able to be left.

I contacted CWJ, they confirmed. Told them to cancel the order and take it back from courier. Won't use them again. This was back in September this year.

 

[Mint Bee]

Well that's very disappointing reading. I thought the move back to glass from plastic was to move away from the throwaway society norm.

Having said that, I'm sure the majority of home honey bottlers and jam makers do reuse jars.

The lids of the F&H jars have the 4-point contacts for grip rather than a full twist. If overtightened the lid distorts before the glass could produce shards.

from F&H website. However as Dave mentioned, some TS have their own view in this. Seem to recall there are some old threads on this on the forum

The Food Standards Agency and Re-Use of Jars
The Food Standards Agency’s recent declaration about not reusing packaging has caused quite a commotion.

“The legislation with regard to food contact materials will preclude the reuse of glass honey jars for any commercial food use, even following stringent cleaning. A commercial honey producer is legally obliged to ensure their jars are fully compliant with legislation, and have an overriding requirement under the Food Safety Act to ensure the food they provide is safe.

Any packaging used must be compliant with the European regulations (principally Article 3 of Regulation 1935/2004), which sets out the safety criteria for food packaging. Though it can be assumed that originally the jars met these criteria, as they were fit to sell at the retail level, once sold and their constituent food has been consumed, the required chain of documentation which shows they are compliant is broken. Thus it would be impossible to demonstrate to the relevant authorities that the reused jars were compliant, unless the jars were knowingly manufactured to be reused, and within a closed loop distribution system like milk bottles. However, only the courts can decide whether in particular circumstances an offence has been committed.”

However, more recently on the BBC 4 programme "You and Yours" a FSA’s spokesman said that whilst in principal this is true, it does require a degree of common sense. Few materials are safer than glass. Glass is inert, it does not leach chemicals as plastic containers may. The jar filler needs to be sure the jar is not chipped or damaged and is clean.

As all beekeepers know, honey does not allow bacteria to grow. Lids should not be reused for reasons of not only cleanliness but also the seal may deteriorate over time.

Above all, common sense should prevail!

We are not providing guidance or advice, the decision is wholly yours to reuse or to recycle in your nearest bottle bank.

 

[enrico]

Just whilst we are on about jars ... does anyone use the small 1oz jars as low cost samplers ? They only cost about 14p each plus a label and an oz of honey ... you could almost get a loss leader to sell at 50p for those punters who are not sure ... clearly, with Covid 19, the usual means of tasting is not possible and plastic straws are now outlawed ...

I had 2.5 Oz jars we used for our b and b. Don't have the b and b anymore but loads of jars left over!!!!!

 

[Pembroke]

Just whilst we are on about jars ... does anyone use the small 1oz jars as low cost samplers ? They only cost about 14p each plus a label and an oz of honey ... you could almost get a loss leader to sell at 50p for those punters who are not sure ... clearly, with Covid 19, the usual means of tasting is not possible and plastic straws are now outlawed ...

One of our local bee farmers in married to a wedding cake maker so they use the small jars as wedding favours.

 

[Erichalfbee]

One of our local bee farmers in married to a wedding cake maker so they use the small jars as wedding favours.

Bee Equipment’s muth jars are lovely for wedding favours.

 

[Swn58]

Ressurecting this thread ..

I need to buy some more 12 oz Hexagonal jars .. I've always bought from Pattersons (jars and Bottles) in the past .. usually 500 at a time ... I haven't enough space to store that many more. But - even with their latest Black Friday promotion the jars inc lids and delivery work out at £296.03 for 500 ... 59.2p a jar.

Freeman and Harding are £199.00 for 528 jars inc lids and del (and there's 10% off this for BBKA members) which then works out at 33.9p a jar ... much cheaper.

Has anyone used F & H ... seems like a no brainer to buy the 528 from them unless I'm missing something ?

I've always had good service from Pattersons and I like the fact they ship in smaller boxes inside the outer boxes but it's a heck of a premium to pay for convenience ...

Or has anyone got any better deals for a quantity of 500 x 12oz Hex jars with lids ?

Look at the 'Bottle Company South?' I haven't looked up their prices for what you need, but I find that they are generally cheaper than any other sellers.

 

[pargyle]

Look at the 'Bottle Company South?' I haven't looked up their prices for what you need, but I find that they are generally cheaper than any other sellers.

From Bottle Company South - with shipping - 12oz Hex jars work out at 47p each on a quantity of 336.

I've ordered from F & H - with the 10% BBKA discount for a quantity of 528 at 34p a jar nobody else seems to come anywhere near that price for that quantity. Obviously for pallet loads the price drops further but I just don't have the space to store that many ... I'm not sure where I'm going to put 500 at present !

I'll let you all know what they are like when they arrive ...

 

[Swn58]

From Bottle Company South - with shipping - 12oz Hex jars work out at 47p each on a quantity of 336.

I've ordered from F & H - with the 10% BBKA discount for a quantity of 528 at 34p a jar nobody else seems to come anywhere near that price for that quantity. Obviously for pallet loads the price drops further but I just don't have the space to store that many ... I'm not sure where I'm going to put 500 at present !

I'll let you all know what they are like when they arrive ...

I will look them up. I know what you mean about storage!