Honey from a euthanised hive: safe for consumption?

[Moobee]

Okay, I'll try to explain one last time: enclosing the bees was an emergency response, in preparation for obtaining CO2: I was genuinely not anticipating they would expire without any further intervention before I could arrange that.
Bees in garden? My garden is large, and when the apiary was established, backed onto fields. Over the past year, some new houses have been built where previously there were no houses.
As for criticism of mentor, that is really not fair: over the course of the past two years the pandemic has severely limited the ability of many older folk to mix, and so I have had less 'education' than I'd have liked. But the mistake was all mine.
In general terms, I regret posting this here: the responses are as upsetting as the event. IMHO, some actually border on cyber bullying when you don't know the mental state of the person on the receiving end. The written word is potentially very damaging.
So I'm done trying to justify myself: from the outset I said that I found this pretty awful. If there is experience here that can improve the bees' lot, then I'd be grateful of that, but at the moment I'm dissuaded from further posting, for fear that the response is ridicule and personal attack.

I think you should see the replies for what they are. Genuine shock and horror to how you chose to dispose of your bees. To make them suffer for two hours while they died is pretty bad don’t you think? I get that you felt you needed to do something but you’ve posted before about these bees so I’m puzzled as to why you haven’t rectified the situation before.
The pandemic is not an excuse…. My mentor has MS so has been shielding but we’ve still managed to (socially distance) view the hives together and she’s always been available to talk.
And there’s a ton of advice on this forum.
I’m sad for the loss of a colony that could have been requeened.

 

[user 20297]

Okay, I'll try to explain one last time: enclosing the bees was an emergency response, in preparation for obtaining CO2: I was genuinely not anticipating they would expire without any further intervention before I could arrange that.
Bees in garden? My garden is large, and when the apiary was established, backed onto fields. Over the past year, some new houses have been built where previously there were no houses.
As for criticism of mentor, that is really not fair: over the course of the past two years the pandemic has severely limited the ability of many older folk to mix, and so I have had less 'education' than I'd have liked. But the mistake was all mine.
In general terms, I regret posting this here: the responses are as upsetting as the event. IMHO, some actually border on cyber bullying when you don't know the mental state of the person on the receiving end. The written word is potentially very damaging.
So I'm done trying to justify myself: from the outset I said that I found this pretty awful. If there is experience here that can improve the bees' lot, then I'd be grateful of that, but at the moment I'm dissuaded from further posting, for fear that the response is ridicule and personal attack.

I know how you feel. When I was a kid I had a pet mouse escape. Our old house was already polluted with the critters, so I'm not sure why mice were the chosen pets. The mouse was under the washing machine and my mum was really anxious, not least that it might interact with the locals and create a fecund super-breed. By whacking around blindly with a stick I managed to kill the mouse. It was traumatic for me, but my Mum's feelings were more important to me. When my Dad came home he went berserk, calling me heartless and evil and he wasn't prepared to try to get a grasp my mindset in the situation.
You didn't start this with any sense of bravado or lack of conscience, and I think you're entitled, (as were the bees ) to a bit more thought.

 

[Dornfield]

I am a decent person and I do not lie. CO2 was discussed and is what I was hoping to be able to do.
Can you please stop with the personal attacks on my character. Did you read the bit about cyber bullying?

 

[Boston Bees]

Can you please stop with the personal attacks on my character. Did you read the bit about cyber bullying?

Log off

Try logging on to a chicken-keepers forum and posting the following

"Hi guys. Feel bad about this. Had a chicken which needed to be euthanised so I tied a plastic bag round its head. It took two hours to die. Can I eat the eggs?"

You'd get the RSPCA called out to you, never mind a bit of online criticism.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

From the dictionary:

euthanizein British English
or euthanise (ˈjuːθəˌnaɪz ), Austral euthanaze or euthanase (ˈjuːθəˌneɪz )
VERB
(transitive)
to kill (a person or animal) painlessly,

 

[Wilco]

I am a decent person and I do not lie. CO2 was discussed and is what I was hoping to be able to do.
Can you please stop with the personal attacks on my character. Did you read the bit about cyber bullying?

Regardless of your intent, the bees died a horrible death and as others have mentioned, there are ways and methods to deal with hives like this which are fairly common knowledge. Not knowing stuff is ok: most people don't know everything, but there are so many opportunities to have asked about this, there is a certain amount of knowledge needed to keep bees well and ignorance does not stop the fact the bees suffered. Likewise, mental health is little comfort to the agonising death those bees suffered (If you have mental health issues then I sympathise and recommend professional advice about it but it does not justify or excuse the bees suffering: they did and they shouldn't have). Some part of you must have thought, during that two hours, 'hang on, this isn't right' and some part of you must have thought, in advance, to ask for help/advice. Hold yourself to account so others don't have to.

Our actions are linked to our characters so I think now is the time to have a hard look at what sort of beekeeper you want to be. Keeping any sort of animals is a responsibility, not a right.

As for there not being houses on the field at first - they don't go up that fast and there will have been planning permission so this comes onto another issue apparent in the post and replies - planning/thinking. If you have bees which you know are difficult (which you did), or even if they're fine, you need a backup plan and be proactive not reactive about it. This is part of good beekeeping.

Going forward, if you decide to keep bees I recommend you either get a 'dark' bee from a reputable supplier with reputedly calm queens or consider Buckfast or Carniolan bees, again from a reputable supplier. However, please proactively work on both your knowledge and practical skills- bees deserve better- and next time you have a problem please ask us in advance. It is better to look a fool than be one.

 

[Cuckmere couple]

As a parting communication, my mentor was not involved in the bag thing: that was me. I had not heard of petrol before and the double bagging (builders sacks) was to try to contaim them and transport them away from the garden in my trailer and think again. But they were escaping from the builders sacks and continuing to attack in very large numbers.

agree with others....you should/could have asked on here....from your posts you'd been planning it so there was time and you said you'd discounted petrol and soapy water as it meant opening the hive again which contradicts

also...the picture of frame in the picture isn't capped and doesn't look like cappings have melted so if that's a sign of the rest you cant really sell it

 

[Erichalfbee]

I think the chap has got the message. We’ve all been shocked and reacted.
Let’s draw a line under this.
I don’t want to close the thread so let’s leave it there.

 

[SWEET]

Stuff

Nothing else to add but for ref - next time simply move the hive and replace with a new unit and some empty comb (wear a sting-proof suit/gloves) move parent hive 100m if needed (you have the space), then remove the queen/replace and unite a week or so later. All the angry bees will flock to the original stand so the parent hive is left with young bees and the queen, very simple and works fine. Splitting hives like these into 2/3 frame nucs also works well.

If the above operation can't be done on site, close the unit at night and move it someplace remote and sort.

 

[JamezF]

If the above operation can't be done on site, close the unit at night and move it someplace remote and sort.

That's the conclusion I'm coming to with my "evil" hive (from my "what did you do in the apiary?" post from yesterday afternoon).

Splitting hives like these into 2/3 frame nucs also works well.

I assume implicit in this comment is new queens in the nucs rather than letting them raise their own? Otherwise you potentially end up with a load of crazily defensive nucs?

James

 

[Erichalfbee]

That's the conclusion I'm coming to with my "evil" hive (from my "what did you do in the apiary?" post from yesterday afternoon).



I assume implicit in this comment is new queens in the nucs rather than letting them raise their own? Otherwise you potentially end up with a load of crazily defensive nucs?

James

Yes new mated queens. Works well. I have a colony that’s heading this way.

 

[Sutty]

Just to inject some science here, although I don't like the way this was done, I doubt there is much evidence that a bee suffers either from raised CO2 - although they will fan to reduce it, or from raised temperature. However I would always assume potential for suffering unless evidence has been obtained to the contrary - this may exist.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Just to inject some science here, although I don't like the way this was done, I doubt there is much evidence that a bee suffers either from raised CO2 - although they will fan to reduce it, or from raised temperature

hey, after all, they're only insects

 

[SWEET]

That's the conclusion I'm coming to with my "evil" hive (from my "what did you do in the apiary?" post from yesterday afternoon).



I assume implicit in this comment is new queens in the nucs rather than letting them raise their own? Otherwise you potentially end up with a load of crazily defensive nucs?

James

I've left a few defensive hives to re-queen themselves and more often than not they end up far better, depends on some luck and drones in area, cheers.

 

[Wilco]

Just to inject some science here, although I don't like the way this was done, I doubt there is much evidence that a bee suffers either from raised CO2 - although they will fan to reduce it, or from raised temperature. However I would always assume potential for suffering unless evidence has been obtained to the contrary - this may exist.

It's more the dying from overheating/lack of oxygen. The physiologic process is not pleasant. Bees are capable of responding to environmental stimuli and moving away from (or deploying other behavioues to negate) negative or noxious stimuli. This demonstrates a degree of sensation. I concede that suffering is usually associated with consciousness and how the negative or noxious stimulus is perceived by the recipient. However, it is incredibly difficult to categorically define whether any other species (or even other members of our own species) suffer as we (the individual) do. I agree that it is better to err on the side of believing things capable of suffering when they cannot than not believing they can suffer when they can.

 

[Mint Bee]

Log off

Try logging on to a chicken-keepers forum and posting the following

"Hi guys. Feel bad about this. Had a chicken which needed to be euthanised so I tied a plastic bag round its head. It took two hours to die. Can I eat the eggs?"

You'd get the RSPCA called out to you, never mind a bit of online criticism.

Off topic. We have taken in rescue (ex battery) chickens through the British Hen Welfare Trust. the state they arrive in is disgusting. if we kept chicken to that level the RSPCA would be entitled to take then away but intense farming is allowed to keep fowl in this state. They don't produce many eggs, but at least they get to roam freeish in the garden, dust bath and the transformation of their behaviour is amazing when treated with a bit of respect

 

[Boston Bees]

Just to inject some science here, although I don't like the way this was done, I doubt there is much evidence that a bee suffers either from raised CO2 - although they will fan to reduce it, or from raised temperature. However I would always assume potential for suffering unless evidence has been obtained to the contrary - this may exist.

Indeed. Though I'm still waiting for the science you implied you were about to inject?

 

[castanea]

i live in France and I don’t have a mentor, it’s not set up the way it is in uk. You don’t know how lucky you are, anyway when I’ve been stuck I’ve posted my question and got help, which has helped me tremendously the knowledge of the people here is fantastic.
You have done the act now decided to ask if you can reap the benefits!,,, when you don’t get the answer which you want you accuse the forum of bullying .
Not everyone is going to agree so you must able to take the good and the bad.
All I can say if you had a cat or a dog you wouldn’t hesitate to go to the vet to put it to sleep. My lab had seen better days it was tough but it needed done, there is no way I would have dragged it on for 2 weeks. That was inhumane.

 

[pargyle]

I think we've reached the end of this horror story ... the OP has been chastised enough ... lack of knowledge, lack of forethought ? Who knows .. the old adage ' when you are up to your arse in alligators it's difficult to remember that your original intention was to drain the swamp !'

Let's leave it at that - hopefully here for posterity and as a warning to anyone who is looking for a solution to euthanise a colony ....

I think we will close the thread now.