hive not inspected for 2years. what to expect?

[priono]

I recently found a hive in the neighbourhood which i've been told is abandoned for approx 2years. the outside temp is already below zero hence i just opened the roof as i saw that a feeder is in place. i filled the feeder with a 1to1 mix and they emptied it within two weeks.

my question is: what can i expect at a first inspection in spring, i guess it will be entirely propolised and perhaps full of varroa even i read that some undisturbed colonies tackle mites better than managed. what would be the best way of making the hive managable again with as little disturbance as possible?

Thanks

 

[Graham40]

First are you sure its abandoned and do you have the land owners permission to look at it.

I find it suspicious that its got a feeder in place maybe someone else is looking after it??

If its survived this long they will be doing a good job at keeping varroa at bay themselves.

Internally I wouldnt expect to see that much differance from any other hive, the brood frames will need replacing.

External condition of the hive make it water tight if its not already, Duct tape will patch up any gaping rotten holes short term.
What kind of hive is it, does it already have a mesh floor, if so this has probably helped with mite population.

I would feed it and wait until mid March early April, prep up 3 new frames of foundation, remove the older ones from outside the brood nest then place one either side of the nest and give a good feed of 1:1 syrup get them drawing it out. Then once they've got the first lot drawn out its a judgement call as to whether more need replacing. I would gradually replace them all, moving the new foundation in to the centre of the nest as the temperature and activity increases. Floor will definately need a clean, you might want to change out all the hardware if you have spare and give a good clean repaint etc but leave that until April/May when temperature is up.

 

[oliver90owner]

i filled the feeder with a 1to1 mixes

Not very useful without a size! Mixes of what?

I might expect them to be brooding if taking 1:1, but they may be using some to assist clearing ivy 'concrete' honey, but I wouldn't know about that as mine use ivy honey as stores most years.

If feeding has encouraged brooding, you may find a huge colony or a starved colony by then., unless you give them rather more attention. Depending, of course, on when that first inspection in spring takes place.

Perhaps you should simply have hefted the hive and left them to it, if sufficiently heavy, as the first step.

 

[itma]

Don't feed syrup in the middle of winter.


Hefting the hive (gently) would indicate whether or not there was a shortage of stores.
Very gently as things may be rotten ...


If they are light (which I would doubt) feed fondant.
Ensure the roof is waterproof.
Otherwise leave well alone until late Feb/early March.

Expect: rampant varroa, rotting floors and everything stuck together with brace comb and propolis. Plan to shift to a new/refurbished hive, and (maybe late April-ish) onto new frames/foundation.

Meanwhile, don't mess the bees around. And sort out the ownership story.
There is such a thing as "theft by finding"... be careful.


The BBKA published a fact sheet on abandoned hives ... Google for it as it can't be linked from this forum.

 

[Chris B]

Don't rely on hearsay to decide it's abandoned, especially in winter.
We had a case recently, a rambler contacted me about an "abandoned" hive, I passed on to nearest branch who knew the beekeeper, and was very surprised to discover his bees were considered abandoned.

If the hive genuinely is abandoned, that doesn't automatically mean anybody can just claim them either. You need to contact the landowner in the first instance.

 

[priono]

Thanks so far. the ownership is clear. no worries about that. the hive is sound too.
I didnt think about hefting. i never did that before. dont even have a scale for that.
I should have mentioned that the hive is just a BS brood box with a feeder on top.

mesh floor is present. I am more concerned about the burr comb and propolis.
do you think i shud replace the queen?

 

[Chris B]

Just reread the BBKA leaflet.

There are some good points in it but it's written from the perspective of a landowner. Don't make the mistake of skim-reading and assuming you as a random beekeeper have any rights whatsoever. You can take ownership if invited/permitted by the landowner, who must have satisfied themselves that all reasonable steps to contact the original owner have been taken. The only exception would be FERA who could overrride the landowner.

 

[VEG]

Thanks so far. the ownership is clear. no worries about that. the hive is sound too.
I didnt think about hefting. i never did that before. dont even have a scale for that.
I should have mentioned that the hive is just a BS brood box with a feeder on top.

mesh floor is present. I am more concerned about the burr comb and propolis.
do you think i shud replace the queen?

Why are you thinking of replacing the queen when you dont even know what is going on in the hive.

 

[priono]

Just reread the BBKA leaflet.

There are some good points in it but it's written from the perspective of a landowner. Don't make the mistake of skim-reading and assuming you as a random beekeeper have any rights whatsoever. You can take ownership if invited/permitted by the landowner, who must have satisfied themselves that all reasonable steps to contact the original owner have been taken. The only exception would be FERA who could overrride the landowner.

Thanks for your legal concerns but if you dont read my statements then just dont answer.

The guy is dead and his wife gives it to me.... Are you legally satisfied now and ready to answer questions concerning the bees? after all i thought its a beekeeping forum not a legal advisory here

 

[VEG]

Thanks for your legal concerns but if you dont read my statements then just dont answer.

The guy is dead and his wife gives it to me.... Are you legally satisfied now and ready to answer questions concerning the bees? after all i thought its a beekeeping forum not a legal advisory here

Maybe if you had said this at the beginning instead of "i have found a hive in the neighbourhood"

 

[priono]

yes u might be right i shud have made this point more clear but tried to avoid to explain the pers. circumstances

 

[Oscarmonster]

Is it too late for Oxalic?

 

[Arfermo]

Thanks for your legal concerns but if you dont read my statements then just dont answer.

The guy is dead and his wife gives it to me.... Are you legally satisfied now and ready to answer questions concerning the bees? after all i thought its a beekeeping forum not a legal advisory here

You may have to get used to being misundestood on this forum and have irrelevant advice pushed down your throat. Just wait until the self appointed 'elf and safety experts come on the scene!!!!

 

[pargyle]

You may have to get used to being misundestood on this forum and have irrelevant advice pushed down your throat. Just wait until the self appointed 'elf and safety experts come on the scene!!!!

Tempered only by advice from those with a personal death wish ... at least you get all points of view on here !

 

[crazy_bull]

You may have to get used to being misundestood on this forum and have irrelevant advice pushed down your throat. Just wait until the self appointed 'elf and safety experts come on the scene!!!!

I think Chris made a fair point, I had attempts from people thinking they could claim 'abandoned' hives on one farm that I visited, abandoned to them meant that there was long grass around them and not visited during 9-5 on a weekend.

However that has now been cleared up, so back to the original question, it is very difficult to know what to do until you open them in the spring, ensure they have enough food by hefting by hand and if nessesary adding some fondant.

In the spring when it's warm enough have a look through and then depending on what you find decide on or ask the appropriate questions.

If there are no frames in there then yes it could be a mass of bur comb, but if it was a well managed hive before the chap died then I would suspect all will be fine.

You could consider giving them some Oxalic but it is getting late now.

Best keep them fed and wait till the spring arrives.

C B

 

[Magwat]

If its survived this long they will be doing a good job at keeping varroa at bay themselves.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. I looked after an abandoned hive last year until its new owner could house it. In the spring when everything else was just getting going it already had 8 frames of brood & was a strong colony throughout the season, however when I used Apiguard at the end of August the mites numbered in the thousands.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Is it too late for Oxalic?

First of all well done for coming to the group to ask. It would be useful if we knew a little more about you and if you have any beekeeping experience or the level of your knowledge. It makes the chances of getting specific, useful input more likely.
As others have said giving 1:1 (sugar) syrup right now may not be the wisest move but if its been taken down then its too late to undo that now. Give some fondant as insurance against lack of stores, sit tight and cross your fingers until spring arrives. When its warm enough to inspect you can make a sensible assessment of the strength and health of the colony and act accordingly.
Varroa is likely to be in evidence but that can be treated by conventional means even if it means foregoing honey in the short term. Keep us posted and good luck

 

[Moggett]

Personally I'd not OA them - yet. As previously said check stores and wait until Spring. If they are found to be riddled with varroa you then have the option to shook swarm and treat with OA. That way you get a clean hive, new frames and hopefully no varroa.

However, it may be that they are fine and will just need treating like your other colonies without any drastic measures. You won't know until you go through them!

 

[itma]

Yes, I wouldn't go opening them up at this point just to treat.
They will be well sealed in, and simply getting the hardware back where it came from is going to be awkward with brace comb and such.

However, if they were scary light, I'd be thinking of getting some fondant across the topbars - which would require opening up. And if I was opening for that, I'd probably be sticking a small eke on the brood box (to make room for lots of fondant - and incidentally ease reassembly) and topping with a standard no-hole crownboard (and removing the feeder).
While doing that, an Oxalic trickle would be possible. Likely because of brace comb between the topbars, the trickle won't go in very evenly - but if opening, it would arguably be worth a shot.
But I wouldn't open them up now if it was only for that.
Because they probably have some sealed brood, Oxalic, while helpful, isn't going to be as effective as it could/should be.

And my guess would be that the brood box will be pretty damn full of honey, rather than starvation city.

 

[priono]

I thought about giving them fondant instead 1:1 but the hive is just a BS brood box with crownboard and eke in which a round liquid feeder is placed over the CB hole. if i would give them fondant i would need to remove the crownboard and place the fondant on the bars. that is what i tried to avoid as it was rather cold and rainy already when i took of the roof to refill the feeder.

I thought if they did it last winter they will do it this year too and the 1:1 mix would perhaps help them. why is 1:1 so bad? cos too much moisture to evaporate which chills the bees or because freezing or both?