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bobba 

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The hive which has had 5 vapes was checked Monday and another <250 dropped, they had a 6th vape.
Will check the insert tomorrow, I can only think they re now bringing them back from some where ?
Looking an my numbers and dates, my other 3 hives all saw an increase sometime around the 4th-9th of this month.

I took 650 (yes exactly 650) bees from my most infested hive on 16/6/2020 and sold them to men in white lab coats so they could be experimented on :patriot:. I was told that not a single mite was found.

I started vaping 70 days later and you have seen the results.

I don't know why but I always imagined hives getting infected with 1 or 2 mites, then slowly spreading. But it seems hives can bring home huge numbers in a short period.

In both our cases, it must be bees robbing from a dieing hive as others have said, I cannot imagin any other way so many mites could get into a hive so quickly.
 

Erichalfbee 

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I know you did, but, "I didn't listen".

I vape 2 hives one day, then 1 hive for the next 2 days then have a break and start again. So have done myself no favors with a crazy schedule - don't ask.....

I probably should have ordered some Apivar and put it in all 4 hives when you said.

But figure I have got this far with the vape, so will probably just slog it out now.

The numbers are finally significantly decreasing in H1, so if that holds up then at least the end is in sight.

Definitely got an eye out for a gas gun. If I gunned all 4 hives on the same day - life would be simpler.

I am considering getting some Apivar in case the next few vapes don't go so well.

But to be honest, I prefer a treatment that does not require opening hives, or keeping the inspection trays in for extended periods. So am very fond of the OA approach and "want" it to work. That is why I have been hesitant to follow your advice on this occasion.
It’s a handy thing to have and I do keep some strips in the freezer. It’s a wise thing to look into your hives one last time after treatment before they go into winter anyway. The other thing you can use is oxalic strips and simply leave them in there.
 

gmonag 

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I also am seeing massive drops ATM.
I've never used Apivar, always OA. Please explain why abandoning a course of OA in favour of Apivar solves the "problem". What problem?
Surely if huge numbers of mites are dropping, it is doing its job.

I'm not trying to be difficult, it is a genuine question.
 

hemo 

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I agree if OA vaping is producing mite drops then yes, it is working.
Following the first vape most phoretic mites should drop within 5 of 6 days, after that three further 5 day vapes should catch the immerging mites in any emerging brood cells. Huge mites drops after the course of treatment must come from elsewhere.
 

Erichalfbee 

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I also am seeing massive drops ATM.
I've never used Apivar, always OA. Please explain why abandoning a course of OA in favour of Apivar solves the "problem". What problem?
Surely if huge numbers of mites are dropping, it is doing its job.

I'm not trying to be difficult, it is a genuine question.
It depends whether you can be bothered to keep vaping. Simple as that. If you don’t mind going back and back till the drop us acceptable then do it. My suggestion was for an easier life.
 

bobba 

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I also am seeing massive drops ATM.
I've never used Apivar, always OA. Please explain why abandoning a course of OA in favour of Apivar solves the "problem". What problem?
Surely if huge numbers of mites are dropping, it is doing its job.

I'm not trying to be difficult, it is a genuine question.
I assume you are referring to madasafish`s comment.

I though the problem he meant was the high mite count and the fact many more vapes may still be needed. (a familiar situation....)

Dani says its "whether you can be bothered to keep vaping". It not just a question of effort.

With days getting shorter and work commitments, it can become hard to find time. Luckily my hives are in my garden and I only have 4. If you had to deal with more hives, travel time and multiple locations, then I see how OA can become a real headache.
'
Although like you I favor the OA approach, I can see why some don't like it.
 

Nannysbees 

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We are using apiguard on our two hives, the first hive dropped 244 after 12 days, the second hive dropped 809,we were a bit shocked by this number, we are on the second pack and so far the second hive continues to be high 329 after the first four days, if this continues to be high do we need to do any other treatment at the end of the second Apigard?
 

bobba 

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Hi Nannysbees, Welcome to the thread. Please feel free to continue updating your progress here.
It will be interesting to see how others are getting on with different treatments.

It depends partly on your pest management program. But assuming you are undertaking an autumn treatment as part of that program like me. Then ideally you want to reduce the mite numbers to such a level they pose no further immediate threat to the hive. I do not intend to treat again until just before the supers go on.

I am not especially familiar with Apigard and have not used it before. Does it require a certain temperature to work? If so consider an alternative treatment should the weather catch you out.

Check the manufactures guidance to to ensure it is suitable for prolonged/repeated use. If so, and you are happy with the treatment then I would continue.





This is the 48h drop, too lazy to count today.

Sorry if this question sounds daft, but what color are V-mites? I thought they were a dark red/brown color, but keep finding some lighter, almost orange ones, and few that are almost see through like they may be shed skins. The one in the picture is still alive too, is its color normal? Are these younger mites maybe?
 

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Erichalfbee 

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We are using apiguard on our two hives, the first hive dropped 244 after 12 days, the second hive dropped 809,we were a bit shocked by this number, we are on the second pack and so far the second hive continues to be high 329 after the first four days, if this continues to be high do we need to do any other treatment at the end of the second Apigard?
You should be ok. The treatment period is six weeks.
 

hemo 

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Varroa mite mature adults are dark brown, the very young ones are very pale with various hues of colours in between.
 

madasafish 

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Drones move between hives. Varroa mites prefer to lay in drone cells..
Lots of robbing just now.

Take that combination and you can see why 4 x 5 day vapes or 2x Apiguard over 4 weeks may not kill all mites.

But insecticide strips are usually meant to be left in 6 weeks...

I usually use thymol based products (or MAQs).. but when you have big and prolonged mite drops, the best answer - in my view - is Apistan or Apivar.. or Apitraz - strips left in 6 weeks.. They also work better in cooler temperatures.. which is important outside the Southern most parts of the UK /not warmed by the Gulf Stream . Temperatures often are below approx 15C and thymol is not very effective..

I do not like using insecticides but sometimes it is the lesser evil.



The smell of thymol on a warm evening can be quite therapeutic (to me at least).. although an irrelevance.
 

bobba 

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Vape No. 6: 24h count = 532

The good news is H2 just got 13 on the 24h count. H3 is under control. And H4 had <40 at last count.
 

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bobba 

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Vape No. 8: 24h count = 164 :unsure:


Not exactly what I was hoping for......
 

masterBK 

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Madasafish "Insecticides" surely you mean "Acaricides" (even though chemically they are probably the same thing in this case!)
 

hemo 

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Vape No. 8: 24h count = 164 :unsure:


Not exactly what I was hoping for......

Don't forget the vaping will remain active for 5 days or more so mites will stll drop.

My colony like yours was still dropping mites last vape (sixth one ) was on the 17th, I checked Monday another 170 odd on the board. Tomorrow will check mites again to see if more have dropped, I feel the numbers dropped has given them a good chance to raise healthy winter brood. After tomorrow I will decide whether or not to leave it another week or two and give another course of vapes.
The continual dropping numbers suggest to me that mites are being bought back.
 

bobba 

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Madasafish "Insecticides" surely you mean "Acaricides" (even though chemically they are probably the same thing in this case!)
Acaricides are pesticides that specificity target Arachnids.
 

bobba 

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Don't forget the vaping will remain active for 5 days or more so mites will stll drop.

My colony like yours was still dropping mites last vape (sixth one ) was on the 17th, I checked Monday another 170 odd on the board. Tomorrow will check mites again to see if more have dropped, I feel the numbers dropped has given them a good chance to raise healthy winter brood. After tomorrow I will decide whether or not to leave it another week or two and give another course of vapes.
The continual dropping numbers suggest to me that mites are being bought back.
My 3 other hives are all < 20 @ 48h (communicative).

So I was hoping to see < 100 @ 24h. I wanted to see a significant reduction.

If mites are being bought back its just 1 hive doing so. And its been happening for a long time, or multiple times.

When I saw the results of the 1st vape, I thought if the first set of treatments kills 95%, then I will still have an infested hive. I conservatively saw 8000 on the first 4 vapes, I only keep boards in for 48h, so the true number will be far greater. Based on 8000, that would leave 400 mites after treatment.

So it is safe to assume that when starting the 5th vape I have a lot more than 400 mites still in the hive. Many of the surviving mites will be in brood so the population will probably quadruple in a short time.

If you consider the initial population of mites (10000+?), how long they have had to reproduce since I started treatment (40 days) and the efficacy of the treatment (95% @ 20 DAT) , then I think it easily accounts for the number of mites still dropping.

I think there could have been a robbing event that got them infested, but do not think mites are still being bought back.

Unfortunately, this does not bode well for their prospect raising healthy winter brood, as it suggests the mites are still reproducing hence feeding on brood.

The one glimmer of hope I am clinging to, is the fact that the average life span of a mite in a hive undergoing OA treatment will be considerably shorter. I figure if the mites have short lives then they have less opportunity to acquire and spread viruses.
 

bobba 

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Or even miticides?
Mites are a kind of Arachnid.

So any of the 3 words are technically accurate :)

Ps, I have been leaving it less than 10m after vaping as you suggested. Works just like you said it would, 10m was definitely overkill. So thanks, you have save me a lot of time.
 

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