hi from john

[Swarm]

i am serious its called begining we all have to start somewear i started with my first hive aprox 3 months ago

That's fine where livestock is not involved, unfortunately the bees don't have a say in the matter.

 

[Millet]

Millet and I were wondering too but our posts were removed. I wonder if yours will go too?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Have you got another nuc box, poly preferably, you can put the weaker colony?
Then put a good slab of fondant on top

 

[Kenson]

Hi John,

I am relatively new too, but I have have read a lot, studied a lot and joined the local Beekeeping association and "stole" a lot of their knowledge. If I understand you correctly:

You have 2 hives (which I shall discuss separately):

#1: "Langstroth, 8 Frame"
1. Has "Full complement" of bees (9 "Seams", a "Seam" being like a coal seam, full of bees between the frames.
2. You have added a "Thin super" (if it is less than the height of a standard Langstroth Super, ~140mm, I would call this an "eke"). [It would help to know the exact height of this "Eke"]
3. I assume that the rest of this hive is "Standard" (Base, Crown Board and Roof).

Working on this basis, I would suggest that you acquire a "Rapid Feeder", any of the "Good Suppliers" (Thornes, Simon the Beekeeper, Maisemore and there are many more) and a 12.5 litre container of "Ambrosia" (your local association will have this for ~£15) and the feeders are very cheap (less than a fiver). You can then put the crown board directly on the hive brood box, the feeder over the "hole" the "Eke" around this and the roof on that.

In this way you can then feed the colony without disturbing it (the less disturbance the better).

If you join your local association someone will probably come and get you through that "first step" which will probably give that colony a good chance of progressing. If not we will have to help you from here

(I do understand the desire to "do it yourself", but sometimes real help is the only option)

Because time is of the essence I am going to suggest that you go on you tube and watch some "Basic videos", Stuart of "The Norfolk Honey Company" has a series posted and "Vino Farm" has a whole set (also a new beekeeper last 2 years) which takes you through the whole set of his mistakes and lessons and he did exactly what you have done, adopted 2 hives

Those videos will show you how to handle that hive/colony and you can watch them in an evening and know what to do.

Do please bear in mind that there are thousands of videos, and you need to take the good bits from the "entertainment", not all suggestions will suit you, but some will.

Now, #2 National
1. Has only 4 frames (5 seams) of active bees.

So this really is your "Problem" hive.

Actually you have a "Nucleus" of bees in there.

I am going to suggest that you buy a good "Polynuc", this is going to cost you about £40. The one I bought happens to be a "Maisemore", but from what I can see there are about 6 good types out there.

The good thing about this design is that it comes with a "Miller Feeder", which has the important advantage (in my view) that you can feed the "Ambrosia" without disturbing the bees at all. It is this "Sugar Syrup" they will need most urgently at this time of year.

My nuc is a "6 frame" which will enable you to transfer your frames straight from your National into the Nuc. The "Polynuc" will be much better insulated than your full size hive (Which I assume is wood).

This reduction of space is very important for your small colony. They have to "Heat the whole box", if you leave them in a large box they will expend a lot of energy heating space they cannot use.

Now, about pollen gathering.

You have question hidden in your scribings: "Why does hive #1 bring pollen and hive #2 doesn't".

I investigated this with my Nuc over the summer.
IF if feed them with Ambrosia, then bring mostly pollen
IF the Ambrosia runs out, they don't.

My conclusion is that if "Sugar Syrup" is available in the Miller feeder, they fetch that as "Nectar", the bees work out that they have enough "Nectar" for their needs and the foragers switch to "Pollen" as a priority.

Mine were bringing a lot of pollen today
I mean loads.

I think (guess) that your #1 has built up stores of honey for the winter, you will know that from observing the frames and so is free to get pollen.

Hive #2 on the other hand is short of stores (Honey) and knows it, so they are desperately trying to bring nectar at the expense of pollen.

I have one question: "Do you have a supply of electricity near the hives?"

John, I hope that helps

If not ask more questions and I am sure someone here will offer good advice (I don't know your budget, so I don't know if you can afford a Polynuc, but I think one would give your bees a better chance, if it's "out of the question", I have a different set of suggestions)

K

 

[eltalia]

i am serious its called begining we all have to start somewear i started with my first hive aprox 3 months ago

G'day John... seems, like the guard beea have detemined your
antennae are bent at a weird angle so your gifts are not getting
past the landing board - there is a "Beginners Section", try that
approach on a go-around ;-)
As you do not know what you are looking at, give us (royal) a go.
Using a fine quality camera - 8MP phone will do - get some pix
uploaded to a free share site and post the links in your next post
in that beginners forum.
As one possibilty for the pollen anomaly it may be your newst hive
is on a brood break, or queenless... but as has been said, we (royal)
should be shown more of what you are seeing, or not seeing.

Bill

 

[johnone]

thanks you have been the most helpful, i will order some ambrosia this evening when you compair 2 hives and you see a difference with a active coloney to a slow one all that i have fed them is sugar water and fondant it was fine for the active hive but i only have had the slow hive for 2 weeks , i did not want to disturb the new one too much hence not being aware of the problem again henson thankyou . i will order a nuc as well the trouble on this site people know too much so it makes then forget i am new to this ,thats the reason i have not joined a local bee keepers just the national bbka

 

[johnone]

sorry got your name wrong kenson again thanyou

 

[enrico]

Far from it John, I am always willing to give advice. Especially to beginners but to be fair we do get people on this site who just come on for a wind up. It is sometimes difficult to decide which is which and your knowledge is also, to be fair, very weak. However, you have been given some wonderful advice which I hope you follow and that should get your hives into winter and hopefully out the other end.
I apologise if I seemed rude but, never my intention, but you need to do some serious reading. There are several good beginners books. Try 'bees at the bottom of the garden' as that is easy to understand and will give you the very basics.
When spring arrives you should be more ready to deal with the basics.
If I were closer to you I would offer to come and have a look at your bees for you but .....
Good luck for the future and do loads of reading.
E

 

[johnone]

i have power what i can use near the hive

 

[wightbees]

I would be tempted to feed the week colony with Hivemakers thymol pre mix with sugar syrup.

 

[Millet]

Not a dig at you but for the love of god i can not take you seriously, if you are serious i hope you all the best in your endevour and if you where local to me i would come and help as much as i could.

 

[Kenson]

Enrico and Millet, you are known to me as a really good contributors, as are almost all those who have replied to this post and some of my odd questions.

but i might get a pasting for this suggestion....

John, as you have power near your hives:

I read that bees keep the Brood in the range 32°c - 35°c (several sources) and it seemed to me that here in England it's mostly somewhat (OK a lot) cooler than that.

I read that the way they do this is to "disconnect their wings" and vibrate their wing muscles to make heat, using up Honey (stores) to do this and figured that if I "put in a bit of heat", they would need to use less stores, basically heating them a little would help. It seemed to me that heat could be added through the OMF (Open mesh floor).

This was actually triggered by a Youtube piece by an American lad who had used a conventional "Frame Feeder", filled with water with a "Fish tank heater" immersed in it. A good idea, but I was concerned that having a "warm tank of water" inside a hive would raise the humidity dramatically and cause secondary problems.

On the web (ebay in my case) I found some "Vivarium Heat Pads" (actually I had found these for another purpose a few weeks before) these are very cheap (less than £10), I got a 7w one and simply wedged it under the Polynuc floor. (The on I got came with a thermostatic controller)

Heat rises so most of the heat should go up into the box. It may not be a hugely efficient arrangement, but it has done my lot proud. They are doing well.

No sooner had I ordered it (that very night) by reading around, I found other people had already thought of it, and done it. Not many, but a few. It is obviously not practical for a professional, or even "serious" beekeepers, but to get me (and you) safely through that first period of learning it seems a reasonable step. One Scandinavian source has commented that he uses 7w under Nucs and 15w under "Full sized" hives.

My feeling is, it just makes life a little easier for the bees

K

 

[eltalia]

Having myself read some on these ideas for heating broodnests I gathered
the concept is highly experimental in avoiding cluster break into egg laying
mode. There is an answer in it I am sure, and so for garden situated colonys
I would encourage some thought towards utilising a passive ground source
system in a loop, a small radiator above the bottomboard.
Those looking to play in development could start with reading Wikipedia on
"simple thermosiphon".

Bill

 

[MartinL]

. . . . . . . .
I am going to suggest that you go on you tube and watch some "Basic videos"
. . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . .
This was actually triggered by a Youtube piece by an American lad who had . . . .

There are plenty of "self appointed experts" (idiots) all keen for their 15 mins of fame on U tube.

Perhaps like the nice man who sold you the colony in the national Box?. . . . . . .

BEWARE U Tube!

 

[Erichalfbee]

highly experimental in avoiding cluster break into egg laying
mode.

Absolutely
AND you don't want that at this time of year.

What eltalia means is that if you warm the bees up the queen will start laying and the bees will very quickly run out of food

 

[enrico]

Finman is an advocate of heat methinks!

 

[johnone]

I have ordered a 5 frame poly nuc with a erk
So will let you know how I get on ,I paid £48 so not too bad where else can I buy ambrosia as the postage is expensive again thank you

 

[Kenson]

Local bee association is my best source for Ambrosia, cheapest and you can "just go and get it"

 

[Kenson]

And I take the point about Youtube, it is full of erroneous "entertainment", but Stuart has made a genuine effort with his videos at helping us numpties and Vino farm is very good at letting us see his mistakes to learn from.

So although youtube can be a menace, it is the fastest way I can think of to get some "basic information" on board, even if we are only learning what definately NOT to do

About the heat, I hadn't thought of that (queen laying like mad during the winter), whole point of a "Novice" section I suppose. Guys I appreciate all you say, it's a way of learning

 

[johnone]

again I thought of that as in my other life I used to be a fringe eng we used defrost heaters I think I could adapt one of them i.e. Stat and timer ( central heating for my bees lol. ) never know it might cach on . Again thank you for your help