Help with smoke alarms needed....please!

[bontbee]

Hi, and a happy and honey filled 2015 to you all.

Is there anyone out there who is au fait with the mysteries of the above....?

The house was rewired about 7 years ago and 2 smoke alarms, wired to the mains, were installed. They have been trouble free since then, but since yesterday, they have gone bananas.

No. 1, upstairs, started piping irregularly yesterday and googling suggested that the back up battery needed replacing. No 2, downstairs, was silent on the matter.

Today, I replaced the battery in No 1, tested it, and put the mains back on. It piped again a couple of times, which I assumed was a "self test". All was quiet for about an hour.

Then No. 1 piped up again, once more with an irregular rhythm - and then No 2 "responded"! Both continued to pipe at random intervals until I flipped the trip on the main fuse board, (or whatever the modern equivalent is). The alarms are on their own dedicated circuit.

Does anyone have any suggestions, please? At the moment, I have one alarm, connected to its battery (which is hanging outside the housing as the battery compartment is an extremely tight fit), sitting on a shelf in the sitting room. I don't want to be at the mercy of S*d's Law. It's already taken effect as the OH, who is an electrician, is on holiday for a month - left yesterday before all this kicked off!!

Thanks

 

[midnight sun]

Hi, and a happy and honey filled 2015 to you all.

Is there anyone out there who is au fait with the mysteries of the above....?

The house was rewired about 7 years ago and 2 smoke alarms, wired to the mains, were installed. They have been trouble free since then, but since yesterday, they have gone bananas.

No. 1, upstairs, started piping irregularly yesterday and googling suggested that the back up battery needed replacing. No 2, downstairs, was silent on the matter.

Today, I replaced the battery in No 1, tested it, and put the mains back on. It piped again a couple of times, which I assumed was a "self test". All was quiet for about an hour.

Then No. 1 piped up again, once more with an irregular rhythm - and then No 2 "responded"! Both continued to pipe at random intervals until I flipped the trip on the main fuse board, (or whatever the modern equivalent is). The alarms are on their own dedicated circuit.

Does anyone have any suggestions, please? At the moment, I have one alarm, connected to its battery (which is hanging outside the housing as the battery compartment is an extremely tight fit), sitting on a shelf in the sitting room. I don't want to be at the mercy of S*d's Law. It's already taken effect as the OH, who is an electrician, is on holiday for a month - left yesterday before all this kicked off!!

Thanks

No expert on this subject, but due to winter most people will have heating on and as hot air rises it takes particles with it. These can get into the alarm and 'short' out the sensor thereby giving a 'false' alarm or at least an intermittent 'false' alarm. (Especially if you have wood burner or open fires).
Most product manufactures recommend you clean out the ducts and vents (hoover them) to prevent this occurring.
Of course they could be 'knackered'. Things never go wrong one at a time do they?
Hope this is some use.
PS Do something soon, as 'sods' law means when they aren't working, you wished they had been!
Good Luck

 

[REDWOOD]

I would replace the two units for some new ones, they only cost about £10 each. Did you replace the back up batteries on the two units as some models talk to each other.

 

[jonnybeegood]

Do you have mice? I know someone who had faulty smoke alarms & it was mice in the loft chewed the wires?

 

[bontbee]

Hi,

thanks for the replies.

I did hoover the units before replacing, but no, I didn't replace both batteries at the same time. I will try new batteries in both...if not, I will buy new. They are marked as manufactured on 12 Jan 2007 and are to be replaced on 12 Jan 2017, so that's only two years away!

I'm still curious as to why the piping was random; there were no fixed intervals or even a consistent number of pipes each time. It really did sound as if they were calling to each other!

 

[bontbee]

Do you have mice?

Good point, but not that I know of....

I haven't heard any scritching around the house, and my ears are pretty good at small noises. There was no evidence in the loft when I was up there last week, but t'is the time of year and weather - at last - for them to be seeking out cosy bolt holes. I'll keep everything skinned.

thanks

 

[itma]

Did you turn off before changing the batteries?
Its quite possible that the units may have become confused and need a reset to sort themselves out.
Hence the old (but surprisingly often effective) suggestion of turning the whole thing off, batteries out and leave it for a while. (How long off might be needed would vary with the power draw versus the amount of charge stored - I suspect these draw VERY little, so could take a while to lose/use anything held in the units power supply capacitors ... I'd certainly leave it for more than 10 minutes with all power off.


Dust matters. Smoke is essentially fine dust. So expect the things to be confused by having dust stirred up, such as by hoovering the things. But they should settle down. The random squaking could just have been random dust particles floating into the detector.


The expiry date is probably indicating that they are 'ionisation' alarms. But they should be good at least until the stated replacement date ...

 

[bontbee]

Thanks itma.

Yes, I did turn off the mains supply before removing the batteries, and both units seemed to discharge shortly after I removed the batteries, both emitting ever feebler chirrups until fading out completely. I have left them both disconnected and battery-less for tonight, and will try new batteries in both tomorrow - when the dust has settled! (And I can face the shrilly things again).

 

[oliver90owner]

Mains operated devices, with battery back up, are likely rather more expensive than a tenner a throw. It is the stand-alone type that are cheap.

Are you sure they are not also carbon monoxide detectors, as well? Have you replaced with a good, tested fresh battery, and of the right type? Just turning them off is bad news - they need attention as they are clearly not operating correctly. The mains circuit could have failed and both back up batteries have become exhausted, or perhaps they bleep to warn of low mains power or depleted battery power?

Have you checked that they are actually now functioning on battery power? Either a test button or by simulating warning conditions?

Redwood is likely spot on re the units being inter-connected.

I would suggest contacting OH soonest, for advice, or get them checked out/fixed by a competent person, if not totally assured of them functioning properly. Or maybe locating the instructions for the installation?

Posting on an 'electrical' forum is likely better than a beekeeping forum, too!!

RAB

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Posting on an 'electrical' forum is likely better than a beekeeping forum, too!!
RAB

Why? people post on here who seem to know b*gger all about bees, so what's the difference

 

[BeeJayBee]

Does anyone have any suggestions, please? At the moment, I have one alarm, connected to its battery (which is hanging outside the housing as the battery compartment is an extremely tight fit), sitting on a shelf in the sitting room. I don't want to be at the mercy of S*d's Law. It's already taken effect as the OH, who is an electrician, is on holiday for a month - left yesterday before all this kicked off!!

If you haven't got the instructions tucked away in a drawer they are likely to be online somewhere. Check what they say, and also contact OH asap.

 

[bontbee]

Hi, thanks Rab.

I don't think they are combined smoke/CO detectors - there is nothing to indicate that on the unit - or wouldn't you expect there to be?

Yes, I put in a brand new battery of the correct type, but only in the one unit that was indicating low levels on the battery. (Perhaps, however, that unit wasn't bleeping to indicate low battery, and it is some other fault altogether).

Mains power still seemed to be OK as both units went off, ie no lights and no response to the test button when I tripped the smoke alarm circuit - but both functions were restored when the supply was restored.

I have tested one on battery power only and it bleeped as expected. I will replace both batteries tomorrow and reinstall and see what transpires.

Unfortunately, OH is not within easy contact, not being in possession of a smart(?) phone and not within easy access of IT equipment... And here comes that Law again - I keep every instruction manual I get, every set of drawings, every spec, serial no. and model no., for everything, but can I find anything for these alarms????

Good suggestion re an electrical forum, I didn't even think of it - but wonder if I would understand the answers?! But there is also an awful lot of talent and skill beyond beekeeping on this forum and it's such a friendly place, so it's my first stop!

(if none of the suggestions work, I'll be back for recommendations on how to find a reliable electrician!)

 

[bontbee]

If you haven't got the instructions tucked away in a drawer they are likely to be online somewhere. Check what they say, and also contact OH asap.

Sorry BJf, must have been in the middle of responding to Rab when you posted. no instructions and no contact with OH, but I will try online, thank you.

(Additional info to original post: I do intend to get these sorted pronto, (- bizarrely, I was chatting with a friend on Wednesday and we were wondering what kind of idiot would remove the batteries from smoke alarms...) The unit that is currently connected to a battery only does seem to be functioning, but I am very aware that the only time there will be a fire in twenty odd years of living in this house will be when there is no alarm on duty.

 

[MikeT]

The units will almost certainly be interconnected and new batteries in both units should be replaced at the same time. Use the best batteries you can find, best is Duracel. Turn the power off at the consumer unit. I think you have done well to only replace them after 7 yrs. I have replaced mine about ever 2 yrs since the barn was converted in 2009.

When the power the batteries are replaced the unit will bleep 2 -3 times depending on manufacture and probably again when the power is installed.

 

[bontbee]

The units will almost certainly be interconnected and new batteries in both units should be replaced at the same time. Use the best batteries you can find, best is Duracel. Turn the power off at the consumer unit. I think you have done well to only replace them after 7 yrs. I have replaced mine about ever 2 yrs since the barn was converted in 2009.

When the power the batteries are replaced the unit will bleep 2 -3 times depending on manufacture and probably again when the power is installed.

Thanks Mike - you have described exactly what happened when I replaced the battery in the one unit. It beeped when the battery was first put in and again, two or three times, when power was restored. I used the test button and that worked and for a while, it seemed to be functioning normally, ie. steady green light and SILENT. I used a Duracell MN1604 which was listed on the unit, along with several other makes and models. (Needed the magnifying glass to read them). The second unit responded to the test button after the power was restored and also seemed to be acting normally.

After about an hour, or it may have been less, they both kicked off so, following everyone's kind advice, I will replace both batteries and...fingers crossed...or I will be on the hunt for an electrician.

 

[theeggman]

If you have to replace the units I would suggest, if finances will run to them, buying 'photocell' units.
You will get a lot less false alarms from cooking toast etc.
We swapped to them as we have 4 dogs and a wood fired rayburn and were forever getting false alarms.
We still get the odd false alarm, normally at 3 in the morning, and I blow the unit through with an airline. unless you have a VERY powerful vacuum it really won't shift the debris.

Hope this helps.

 

[REDWOOD]

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/KDKF1.html

 

[pargyle]

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/KDKF1.html

Those are a good make and a very good price ... great link.. Thanks

 

[REDWOOD]

Those are a good make and a very good price ... great link.. Thanks

They have a shop in Swansea and are the cheapest for electrical supplies for the general public, hence there is always a queue at the counter

 

[oliver90owner]

Those are a good make and a very good price ... great link

Unfortunately with VAT and delivery, for two, would be over £28, so 14 quid apiece, but over 40% more than the tenner suggested.

Still good value for safety, mind.