Help+support

[Dishmop]

Thanks for all your advice.
My plan of attack is simple if there it is in the terms and conditions that no live stock is allowed that means no pets aswell. But the council allow pets so i can class them as pets There are endangered species. There environmental friendly may I should contact green peace may the will fight my corner.
I have a tree so if the case not allowed on council propery I will house the hive in a tree .
The don't own the air or the trees.

I think that you will find the council will say that they do own the trees even if you planted them.


Bees................... livestock????????????????

 

[Dishmop]

There are 60 houses in the close where I live and the council did speak to as many tennants as they could asking if they had had any problem.

Only two said that they had and they were the ones who had originally whinged about poo on their cars. It seems one of the first council blokes who looked into the complaint (and he had said to me "what do they do when a bird messes on their car?) had suggested that they parked their car somewhere else as it was after all not thier dedicated parking space but one for anybody to use.

 

[pargyle]

There are 60 houses in the close where I live and the council did speak to as many tennants as they could asking if they had had any problem.

Only two said that they had and they were the ones who had originally whinged about poo on their cars. It seems one of the first council blokes who looked into the complaint (and he had said to me "what do they do when a bird messes on their car?) had suggested that they parked their car somewhere else as it was after all not thier dedicated parking space but one for anybody to use.

Don't people get very possessive about what is 'THEIR' parking space ... seems like squatters rights over bits of public road. My Son's neighbour in Sheffield (he lives in a long street of terraced houses and there are far too many cars) started putting traffic cones outside her house to 'reserve' 'HER' parking space and then complained when my son moved the cones and parked his car as there was nowhere else to park ! What are they on ? Bee poo on cars - I can understand it on laundry on a washing line but on a car ? Get a life !!

 

[BeeNice]

Thanks for you advice everyone I will use to my advantage. And I'm letting the council do all the work. Include finding land for them and the council should pay for the land.
I don't really want to keep them on farm do to spraying chemicals that kills bees.
I made sure that the hive entrance is away from the neighbours but likely they don't want me o have them.

Hi Curt
Keeping bees at home has its problems, I have kept them on the garage roof and they were not a problem but having loads of bees fly past bedroom windows can be unsettling to some. If you have one hive, you will soon have 2 and more come the swarming season (best to have at least 2 as a back up anyway) So, you will need to find an out apiary. You don't say how urban you are. Farms don't all spray (stock farms) farms have lots of space behind barns etc away from arable land. Have you thought about roof tops, you need to get out and start asking around and looking for sites wherever you can find one.
Its nice to have bees in the garden where you can visit all the time and when you start its important to see what your bees are doing thoughout the day. But you now need to find a solution, so good luck, don't stop beekeeping.
regards
Steven

 

[Dishmop]

Don't people get very possessive about what is 'THEIR' parking space ... seems like squatters rights over bits of public road

and they conveniently forgot who it was they used to come to when they had problems with their car........

still, they dont ask now. More time for me, and the bees.

One complained to council about my camper van and that she couldget her car in space next to it... So I swapped the van with my Mercedes.....which takes up the dame amount of space.

 

[madasafish]

An answer to bee poo on cars is to wash the car with washn'wax and then a quick wax. Makes cleaning any mess off much easier. Done well in March, last 6 months...

But anyone who complains about bee poo would probably find that hard work .....

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

What it boils down to is this - I would be very surprised if a tenancy agreement does not have a clause prohibitng/restricting the keeping of livestock whether it specifies bees or not doesn't matter - it's a catch-all, what it does is give the landlord the choice of whether he allows you to keep that specific creature on his property and be able to decide on an individual case by scenario.In a lot of cases tenants go ahead and keep things on the property without permission and (as I said before) as long as there isn't a problem (nuisance, public health, animal welfare) a state of laissez faire exists.UNTIL SOMEONE COMPLAINS.
As you (the tenant) didn't check first (sometimes a wise thing as you may not have got the answer you wanted) this leaves you on the back foot - but not totally Kna*kered: the important thing now is not to be confrontational. Be polite, willing to make compromises and gather all the facts (try not to bring the complaining neighbour into the equation unless you really have to) and don't try to be clever with interpreting the tenancy agreement to suit you (they've got lawyers on the payroll and you know what those forked tongued serpents are like at manipulating words to strangle the victim i.e. you ) discreetly research your local councillors and see if you can get any support there - there's bound to be the odd sandal wearing tofu knitter who'll throw his/her (wooly) hat in the ring to support your case . just use a bit of reason and you never know where it will get you

The council area manger as seen the chickens and also I have read the tenancy agreement and says nothing about bees. So I'm allowed to keep them in other words would this be true.

As I said laissez faire - but I've just read the Leicester City tenancy agreement and although it doesn't mention bees, what it does say is;
'If your home has a private garden you can keep no more than two domestic
animals, e.g. a cat or a dog, not farm animals.' now some may argue that bees aren't farm animals but 'no more than two domestic animals, e.g. a cat or a dog' seems fairly specific.Don't get mired down in trying to twist legalese to suit yourself.
So again, be retrospect in your meeting (the last one with the chickens went alright) and be helpful and polite.
Good luck - and if you ever move into my ward I hope I've got your vote after all that!

 

[Dishmop]

But anyone who complains about bee poo would probably find that hard work

the main complainant often cleans her car twice a week and will spend half and hour with the hoover inside. She only uses it to go to work less than a mile away.

"I cleaned it the other day.... now I have got to do it again"

Got to?????


My bees are worth more than her car.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

She only uses it to go to work less than a mile away.

The lazy sow should walk then - do her bit for the environment! (as you see, a caring sharing councillor) when I worked in Bristol I walked everywhere - a couple of miles to and fro each day only used the bus if I was extremely hung over or it was pouring down and only then if I had any money !

 

[Luminos]

If my car needs cleaning, I just take it to the garage and tell them something's rattling...they never find the rattling, but they always clean the car.
Simples!

 

[pargyle]

the main complainant often cleans her car twice a week and will spend half and hour with the hoover inside. She only uses it to go to work less than a mile away.

"I cleaned it the other day.... now I have got to do it again"

Got to?????


My bees are worth more than her car.

Obviously an OCD Cleaner .... there were some on the TV last night ... really scary ! Four bottles of bleach A DAY being used .... in a flat !!!

As for my car ... it gets cleaned twice a year whether it needs it or not ! Life's too short ...

 

[beekim]

no advise just to wish you good luck.

 

[thorn]

If the agreement refers to "livestock", it's using a word that is, as Wikipedia states, nebulous. If that is indeed the word used, ask them how they get it to include bees, and ask that their legal department refers you to the case they're relying on. They'll probably not be able to find one.
Bees are neither domestic animals, nor farm animals, although they can be "farmed". But that doesn't apply here.
The council will probably then fall back on a clause about causing a nuisance to your neighbours. Okay, so let them produce the neighbour's statement. As Dishmop's experience shows, it can readily be challenged. "Those aren't my bees, they're bumble bees/wasps/blowflies/low-flying aircraft". The council can't just accept one person's word that the bees are a nuisance.
This sort of thing is a worry that anyone keeping bees in a rented property's garden could do without. But let's not let the b*****ds grind us down. Let's confront them wherever and whenever we need to.

 

[domino]

If the agreement refers to "livestock", it's using a word that is, as Wikipedia states, nebulous. If that is indeed the word used, ask them how they get it to include bees, and ask that their legal department refers you to the case they're relying on. They'll probably not be able to find one.

I wouldn't start trying to be a barstool lawyer, it won't end well.

 

[pargyle]

I wouldn't start trying to be a barstool lawyer, it won't end well.

Council officials are usually looking for an easy life - confrontation is rarely productive. In this case, treat them gently and with luck they will have bigger fish to fry than your bees and chooks ! (Sorry ... the fish got out of the bag again !).

 

[thorn]

I wouldn't start trying to be a barstool lawyer, it won't end well.

I ain't a barstool lawyer, I'm a real one.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Bees are neither domestic animals, nor farm animals, although they can be "farmed". But that doesn't apply here.

They will most likely class them as livestock, as they come under Defra rules as food producing animals.

 

[thorn]

They will most likely class them as livestock, as they come under Defra rules as food producing animals.

Defra rules don't bind anyone or anything beyond the scope of the rules. They won't apply in a case such as this. They do not give a legal definition that will be followed in every case.
Ultimately it's for the council to make its case. Give them hurdles to jump over and they'll stumble or baulk.

 

[pargyle]

I ain't a barstool lawyer, I'm a real one.

And your legal advice is very good ... if you are giving it to someone who is either capable of making a legal challenge or is prepared to pay for someone who is a lawyer that will assist with a legal challenge. But, as a layperson, it is not easy to fight a battle of this sort ... as I said earlier, better to talk to the Council, nicely, and see if they can be pursuaded that there is no harm in the bees being kept in his garden.

A jar or two of 'home grown honey' (perhaps bought from Tesco and relabelled, if the OP has none to spare) to be given to those neighbours who complained may be a starting point to consider !

 

[Hivemaker.]

Give them hurdles to jump over and they'll stumble or baulk.

Oh well, perhaps he needs to argue hammer and tongue with the council and see where that gets him.