Hello from Preston

[hedgehog66]

hi everybody

i have been reading threads on the forum for several months now and find them most enlightening

i purchased 3 colonies on Sunday and set them up at home

i had a great shock when, what i thought would be a few bees coming out to do an orientation flight (dry,sunny,no wind, 11 degrees), appeared to be lava, pouring out of the front of each hive, and it didnt seem to stop.

Eventually, the bees circled round, pooing all over my lovely white beekeeping jacket (fresh out of its bag) and seemed to approve of their new purpose built apiary.

Yesterday, whilst it was warm and they were flying, I tried to remove the queen excluder, so the queen can get up to the super full of food, however, the bees had a different idea. Unfortunately, my smoker hasnt arrived yet, so i gave up and left them to it.

i have just set up a weather station in the apiary and it is reading 8 degrees, with mild drizzle, and they are still flying ......

They saw me approach with a screwdriver and decided they didnt want me doing DIY today, so i left them to it.

I cant wait to watch them over the next few months and then will look forward to some lovely honey in the autumn.

Anyway, preparing for my next beekeeping lesson with Preston Beekeepers - swarming......... i am hoping the bees haven't read about this, and decide to stay in the hive rather than looking for a new home.....

off to read some more threads now, thanks to everyone who has written, i really enjoy reading them

 

[enrico]

Ok, welcome, first things first, buy a can of fabispray, useful for quick things like queen excluder removals!! Try and get them settled down for winter ASAP. The larva is being hoofed out because they don't need it at this time of the year, they need the room for food, make sure the hives have enough food and QE removed, mouse guards in place and look forward to spring......
E

 

[BKF Admin]

I think the op was larva as in volcano not larvae.

 

[enrico]

Oh yes!!! Silly me! Sorry! Xxxx

 

[itma]

I think the op was larva as in volcano not larvae.

Yes but that would be, as the op said "lava".


Welcome.
Your bees might be a bit feisty, or they may not have settled yet.

Don't rush them.
ADDED -- Let them settle down, and then
Wait for a decent day - sunny, calm and warm as poss (hope for 12C) - before trying to do anything.

Smoke. Just a few puffs, then wait whole real minutes for them to notice the smoke.

There's a lot of patience in beekeeping.
Except when queen cells are involved ...

And for you the hard bit is going to be leaving them alone over winter ... disturbance should be kept to a strict minimum necessary - occasional 'hefting' (or weighing) and possibly an oxalic treatment. Absent the need for emergency feeding, that's it until spring starts to spring.

// Entrances should be reduced until mouseguards are fitted (due now).

 

[BKF Admin]

Thank you Mr Spellcheck

 

[hedgehog66]

mouse guards are on order, together with a hole catalogue of other stuff, its like having a baby all over again and buying things "just in case you need them !!!!"

entranceways are down to minimum

they are very noisey.....

ive just been out to look at them ( from afar) and they all came to look at me, then went back to get more buddies to come and take a cheeky peek at their new target to sting. One flew up my fleece sleeve and got me right on my tennis elbow spot. I have read stings are good for arthritis, so i didnt mind too much. It hurt much less than i thought it would.

with regards to feeding, one guy told me to give fondant, someone else insists 2:1 syrup. i cannot see how much stores they have built up - any suggestions please ???

thanks

 

[itma]

...
Yesterday, whilst it was warm and they were flying, I tried to remove the queen excluder, so the queen can get up to the super full of food, however, ...

... buying things "just in case you need them !!!!"
...
with regards to feeding, one guy told me to give fondant, someone else insists 2:1 syrup. i cannot see how much stores they have built up - any suggestions please ???

A completely full super should be more than half the prudent ration of stores for the winter, for one hive.
Suggest that you get someone from the club to assist removing qx, and to have a feel of how much weight you have there. Bad idea to disturb for a look at this time of year.
It is now too late for feeding syrup.
Fondant can be fed in winter -- IF it is required. No rush.
If you have a full super on each colony, by the time the QX is out they'll have plenty stores to last at least until Christmas. Oxalic treatment time provides another opportunity to reassess the stores position.

Excess food is a bad thing as it gets in the way when spring arrives, depriving the queen of laying space and thereby promoting swarming.

A visit from an experienced pair of eyes and hands would also be able to give an assessment of their temper.
But meanwhile, I must stress, leave them alone for a few days!



I would have hoped that the supplier might have given you an idea (his!) of what it was that you were getting -- as well as the colonies' treatment history (hopefully only for varroa).



I'd suggest holding off the "buying stuff in case its needed" for a while.
1/ there's not much that might be needed right now
2/ there should be some sales coming
3/ the more of the course that's been completed, the better idea you'll have as to what is worthwhile and what is clutter -- and hopefully the more contacts you'll have, should you need to borrow anything, rather than buy it urgently.


Apart from fitting mouseguards, about the only thing worth doing (IF your hives have mesh floors) would be to put the inspection boards in for a week and then count the varroa dropped.

// oh, and when the smoker arrives, practice lighting it (and putting it out!)

 

[alanf]

One flew up my fleece sleeve and got me right on my tennis elbow spot...

with regards to feeding, one guy told me to give fondant, someone else insists 2:1 syrup. i cannot see how much stores they have built up - any suggestions please ???

Some colonies don't like furry material like fleeces, it's said that they are reacting as if it is bear fur but not sure how you'd prove that.

What would help with any advice is establishing what you've got. Usual recommendation is to buy colonies in spring but lots of other circumstances apply. Are these colonies that were already set up for winter? Or is that the seller suggesting they need feeding? Or are they 'as is' from someone who had no time to do anything with them this year? What size boxes are they in?

 

[hedgehog66]

hi alan

the guy is selling up do to "work commitments"

he suggested uniting 2 nationals, by putting the weaker one on top of the other consisting of : brood,QE,super with paper inbetween super * brood - i'm no expert but I havent read that method in any of the books i have read. he said i would have 2 queens in spring this way..... i am definately blonde, but i think i might end uo with no bees this way, what do you think ?

he also said he treated for verroa in sept

i have bought 2 nationsls consisting
1 brood, qx, super, crown roof
2 brood, crown, roof
3 polystyrene brood, crown roof

i have also 2 poly supers with drawn out comb and 1 national super (empty)

 

[hedgehog66]

hi ITMA

are there sales before/after xmas ???
where is the best place to look ??

thanks for your reply
everything is being taken on board and processed !!!

thank you

 

[Luminos]

Hello and welcome to the forum

 

[itma]

...
i have bought 2 nationsls consisting
1 brood, qx, super, crown roof
2 brood, crown, roof
3 polystyrene brood, crown roof

i have also 2 poly supers with drawn out comb and 1 national super (empty)

If #1 has a full super, it is well on the way, but yes, qx out.
#3 - if entirely poly, then weighing it from a hivestrap is going to give a good idea of its stores. The poly parts and wooden frames and wax and bees together are only going to weigh about 3 or maybe 4 kg - the rest is stores. Hopefully it is heavy, like 20kg, and thus hard to lift.
Even for that, a helping hand would be very useful.
And an experienced hand would be able to help you compare #1 and #2. (Which would be made easier if they are similar, harder if they are different materials.)

Detail advice point - crown boards ought to either have no holes or have them blocked off. Most poly hives come with a flexy plastic cover 'sheet' - without any holes. This may matter if/when you have to feed ...

I think its a bit late for combining. If a colony is seriously weak, its chances *might* be improved by transferring to a 6-frame poly nuc. And we haven't mentioned insulation ... Anyway, this sort of thing calls for an experienced judge on-site. Not routine. Only in case of emergency.

...
are there sales before/after xmas ???
where is the best place to look ??
...

This vehemently anti-commercial forum censors most trade names!
However, M@isemore's sale is on now, P@ynes' is just after Christmas and Th0rne's are expected to have an online sale before Christmas (but no confirmation or date yet). Last year T's had two online sales...
The BBKA Spring Convention also provides "buying opportunities" for those within travelling distance, or with pals who are going anyway.

 

[alanf]

hi alan

the guy is selling up do to "work commitments"

he suggested uniting 2 nationals, by putting the weaker one on top of the other consisting of : brood,QE,super with paper inbetween super * brood - i'm no expert but I havent read that method in any of the books i have read. he said i would have 2 queens in spring this way..... i am definately blonde, but i think i might end uo with no bees this way, what do you think ?

he also said he treated for verroa in sept

i have bought 2 nationsls consisting
1 brood, qx, super, crown roof
2 brood, crown, roof
3 polystyrene brood, crown roof

i have also 2 poly supers with drawn out comb and 1 national super (empty)

Right, so it's a move now situation. At least they were treated in September - presumably one of the thymol variants for varroa so that's one concern less for the time being and they have not been totally neglected.

You list 3 hives but say "2 nationals". Would that be 2 nationals after uniting? A bee colony sometimes chooses to have 2 queens over winter, but forcing them together now isn't likely to work. What the bees are looking to do this time of the year is form an undisturbed cluster around one queen with enough stores to get them through winter. Any QX should be out because they need unrestricted access to any stores they have.

You need to know how much stores each has. Weighing or hefting (estimate the weight by lifting) is less disturbance. Or you could take a peek to get a rough idea of what stores they have; not a full inspection, you're looking for a count of the frames of honey. Ideally a colony should have 18-20Kg of stores but that's hard to fit in one national deep box at around 2.5Kg per deep frame and still have room for bees.

Your best bet would be to get a second opinion from someone experienced in the local association. Normally on a warmish calm day, but those are in short supply this time of year. If one colony is weak, you have to ask why? It might be spreading disease to the healthy colony by uniting even in the usual way with one queen.

Other than assessing the health of what you have, the priority is to give them enough extra stores to get each of the colonies you hope to have next spring through the next few months. Sugar syrup would be a bit late because they would need to store it and reduce the water content, a patent bee syrup would be better because of the lower water content but they might still be reluctant to take it and you don't say you have any feeders. I'd ask locally about getting a couple of 12.5Kg packs of bakers fondant. The risk is that they don't have enough stores at present and you will need to put blocks of the fondant on to supplement what they have until spring. The poly supers (frames out) might be useful to hold those blocks of fondant over the brood frames.

Add: ITMA types faster. I think that's the basic advice this time of year, work out what stores your bees have and prepare to add some if it's not a lot.

 

[Tom Bick]

Don’t want to dampen down the thread and wish the op well with the bees but to me I would be a bit concerned over the bees temperament.

 

[Suzi Q]

Yes, hope that's not the real reason the beek sold up.

 

[oliver90owner]

Yes, hope that's not the real reason the beek sold up.

Temperament need not be a long term problem - they can be re-queened at the earliest opportunity in the spring. Problem now is to get them to spring. Plenty of time to find a suitable apiary, if they are close to neighbours.

 

[BeeJayBee]

The only things I can add is that, as they're 'at home', it might be worth putting some screening of some sort to make the bees fly up as soon as they leave the hive. Either that or point each entrance towards a tall hedge, fence or even a building. Try to make sure each entrance is slightly out of line of the others, to discourage drifting between colonies. John Hamer discovered that entrances facing north through to east are the worst option.

Our hives came to us in January, they were very 'light' and were brought through to spring with bakers fondant (bought from a local baker) laid directly on top of the frames, covered by plastic boxes and a load of insulation. Each colony got through 12.5kg. We didn't do more than keep them fed until the end of March.

If you get somebody from your BKA to check them I would think they'll be able to tell you if the poly hive is also a National, which will mean the three hives should be compatible.

 

[Black Comb]

I would suggest you join Preston BKA and sign up for their beginners course in Jan.
Viki, who runs the course, is a very helpful and knowledgeable lady and will give you plenty of advice.

 

[itma]

...
Suggest that you get someone from the club to assist removing qx, and to have a feel of how much weight you have there. Bad idea to disturb for a look at this time of year.
...
A visit from an experienced pair of eyes and hands would also be able to give an assessment of their temper.
But meanwhile, I must stress, leave them alone for a few days!
...

The only things I can add is that, as they're 'at home', it might be worth putting some screening of some sort to make the bees fly up as soon as they leave the hive. ...
If you get somebody from your BKA to check them I would think they'll be able to tell you if the poly hive is also a National, which will mean the three hives should be compatible.

Since the bees shouldn't be flying much before spring, screening (and temper) probably don't have to be rushed.
Good tempered queens can be sourced in spring, and it will then take some weeks for their genes to be predominant among the flying bees.
Apart from evil genes, there are other reasons for bad temper. Disruption (like moving and then opening them), Queenlessness, lack of stores and mites/diseases are all possibilities.
Let them settle for a few days, and then check stores (from the weight, not visually) and feed if need be. Check varroa and treat if need be. Check the queen in the spring.

The poly hive. Does it take the same frames in the super as the wooden nationals? Does it have any maker's marks? I've expected it to be a poly national, taking the same frames, but probably being slightly bigger externally (too big to go simply under a wooden roof).

I would suggest you join Preston BKA and sign up for their beginners course in Jan.
Viki, who runs the course, is a very helpful and knowledgeable lady and will give you plenty of advice.

Agreed, if you are not already on such a course - which I had asssumed from the 1st post comment about learning about swarming.
A proper beginners course, and going through books from at least two different authors, is pretty much essential. Otherwise, you'll be constantly asking questions and being confused by the multiple different answers offered!