Hello from NE Essex

[Johnnifer]

Good morning beekeepers

I've been reading bits and bobs on beekeeping for some years now without doing anything more. I'm thinking its about time I got myself a roundtuit and took the plunge. Plan A is to make a Nucleus box over winter and hopefully be able to collect a swarm in May or June. By which time I should also have had time to make a hive. Undecided at the moment whether to make a BS National or a Top Bar hive.

I've sent an email to my local Beekeepers Association enquiring about non beekeeper membership, open days and the like and I'm waiting a reply. Possible wrong time of year as things begin to wind down.

Johnnifer

 

[benjamindonaldson]

I live in west London and started beekeeping this year. My local beekeeping association did a “winter course” which was theory only and started in January. Following that in April/May they started a summer course which was more practical beekeeping.

I bought a nuc of bees from local honey man who is probably not too far from you. Bees were a bit delayed due to the weather but once I got them I was very pleased there were very productive and very calm, apparently Buckfast. Catching a swarm is great in principal but I don’t think many beginners start by catching swarms from discussing it with other beginners at the association.

I would definitely suggest British national but don’t go for 14x12 just get normal brood box. Top bar is quite a different beast from what I understand so might be worth getting some experience before you turn your hand to the top bar.

I am by no means an expert just giving you my opinion from my own experience.

And don’t forget you ask two beekeepers the same question and you will get 3 different answers.


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[Murox]

Good morning beekeepers

I've been reading bits and bobs on beekeeping for some years now without doing anything more. I'm thinking its about time I got myself a roundtuit and took the plunge. Plan A is to make a Nucleus box over winter and hopefully be able to collect a swarm in May or June. By which time I should also have had time to make a hive. Undecided at the moment whether to make a BS National or a Top Bar hive.

I've sent an email to my local Beekeepers Association enquiring about non beekeeper membership, open days and the like and I'm waiting a reply. Possible wrong time of year as things begin to wind down.

Johnnifer

Welcome to the Forum Johnifer.
I think you will find that the vast majority of apiarists use National or Langstroth type hives. Join your local association and go to a few meetings before you make your decision about which hive type or make any equipment, the shapes and dimensions vary. (There are many types).

I suggest you do more research, Top Bar Hives are essentially horizontal hives whilst Nationals are essentially vertical. Have a look at this link https://www.naturalbeekeepingtrust.org it may give you some more food for thought; and this one http://happyhourtopbar.--------.com/p/my-hives.html

Good luck.

 

[Popparand]

If you're in NE Essex I suggest you contact Colchester BKA. They hold winter theory classes starting soon, and practicals in the Spring/Summer. Most keepers prefer National hives. Unless you are built like Charles Atlas you might find commercial boxes a bit heavy!

Also spend some time browsing this forum. You'll find a lot of good advice and even more conflicting opinions.

 

[Johnnifer]

I read I should consider a National 14x12 brood for the modern prolific bee, I also read I shouldn't because they get too heavy. Then I read the only way to start is with a deep National brood and two shallow supers with the idea that the brood could be extended by means of a third Shallow. I also read to not bother with deeps and just build a one box does all module hive based on National shallows using two or three for the brood and as many as is required for the supers, the idea here being too light is better than too heavy. Then I read about these top bar hives...

Some interesting and ideas there from Murdox and I've now read I could set up a hive in the hollows of our old apple tree!

I'm now decided to do very little until I've had some interaction with the local BKA, maybe knock up a Nuc and a handful of frames.

 

[benjamindonaldson]

Yea I struggled and still struggle with the contradictory advice. Just got to see what works for you. Probably a good idea going to the local association first. Good luck.


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[Gilberdyke John]

I read I should consider a National 14x12 brood for the modern prolific bee, I also read I shouldn't because they get too heavy. Then I read the only way to start is with a deep National brood and two shallow supers with the idea that the brood could be extended by means of a third Shallow. I also read to not bother with deeps and just build a one box does all module hive based on National shallows using two or three for the brood and as many as is required for the supers, the idea here being too light is better than too heavy. Then I read about these top bar hives...

Some interesting and ideas there from Murdox and I've now read I could set up a hive in the hollows of our old apple tree!

I'm now decided to do very little until I've had some interaction with the local BKA, maybe knock up a Nuc and a handful of frames.

Unless you have plans to shift your brood box about with monotonous regularity the weight of a 14 x 12 compared to a national brood box isn't a critical matter.

 

[Beefriendly]

I read I should consider a National 14x12 brood for the modern prolific bee,

The bees you keep will tell you how much room they need. Don't make the mistake of saying you want to keep bees in a hive of X size. It don't work that way.
Standard national is good and flexible, you can go to double brood (if your queen needs the laying space).
If the queens are not good (many local mongrels) then even a national hive may be too big for them.

 

[Johnnifer]

I also read that a National deep brood could be converted into a 14x12 with an eke, seems to me you just end up with a load of spare deep frames. More options than you could shake a stick at, I'll just wait to hear what the local experts have to say.

 

[Murox]

I read I should consider a National 14x12 brood for the modern prolific bee, I also read I shouldn't because they get too heavy. Then I read the only way to start is with a deep National brood and two shallow supers with the idea that the brood could be extended by means of a third Shallow. I also read to not bother with deeps and just build a one box does all module hive based on National shallows using two or three for the brood and as many as is required for the supers, the idea here being too light is better than too heavy. Then I read about these top bar hives...

Some interesting and ideas there from Murdox and I've now read I could set up a hive in the hollows of our old apple tree!

I'm now decided to do very little until I've had some interaction with the local BKA, maybe knock up a Nuc and a handful of frames.

I suggest that you do not make yourself a "Nuc and a handful of frames" until you have decided upon the the variety of bee and hive.

Frames are different dimensions for various reasons and essentially only fit correctly to a particular hive type. To harvest honey easily the beehive got invented, and was standardised, in all its various guises. Bees can and do live in almost any, suitable to them, cavity. You really do not want to end up building all your own equipment to fit your own unique hybrid beehive.

 

[Courty]

Welcome to the forum Johniffer,
I’m new too, I planned to go in steadily and circumstances aligned so I bought a nuc, then had to rush into a hive. Trying to choose by research can be daunting so take your time and see if you can go to local hands on sessions at BKA, so you can see for yourself. I went with an Abelo poly National as a safe bet, it would take the National frames in the nuc and was a reasonable price. I was also swayed by Phil Chandler says by that bees seemed to like poly’s in one of his podcast interviews.
If you are handy with making things and you fancy a topbar, go for it, whatever you do is challenging. Hopefully I will be in a position to try that too in the future.
Good luck!

Courty

 

[Johnnifer]

Local BKA sessions are plan A and where I intend to start out, I don't expect to be taking the plunge proper until next May or June.

In the meantime I have time on my hands, some odd lengths of softwood and an inclination to dabble. Yesterday I had a play in the shed and after an hour I came out with a probably serviceable but poor excuse of a National DN4 foundation frame. The top bar and two piece bottom bar came out virtually perfect where I struggled was with the Hoffman style side bars which involve the more intricate cuts. Clearly I need some more practise and to refine my techniques.

I won't be going into full scale frame production any time soon, it was just to give me an idea if making my own frames was something I could take on with just the tools I have. Yesterdays effort involved little more than a circular saw, jigsaw, wood chisel and mallet and just like 'That one time at band camp' it was fun, just a bit of fun.

 

[thorn]

My bee buddy started off making his own boxes from plans. Unfortunately he used the wrong thickness of wood, as a result of which they don't quite fit flush with boxes that we've subsequently bought.
I second the suggestion that you buy Abelo poly hives. The colonies I have in them have come through the winters so much stronger.

 

[Johnnifer]

Abelo poly National as a safe bet (seconded) and respect to Phil Chandler...

Just found out there's a course in January not too far from me for beginners.

It covers choosing hives, beekeeping theory and its aimed at giving the beginner an understanding of what's what in the world of beekeeping before they take the plunge. Sounds as if it's right up my street.

Roll on the New Year!

 

[Johnnifer]

Having done the maths and a little more research, while there's much personal satisfaction gained from hand crafting your own, Thorne's 'Bees on a Budget' starter kit now looks to be the way forward.

Might still go ahead and build a couple of half width National shallow boxes for use as Nucs and/or hive maintenance but for convenience and effort involved I may just get the frames from Thorne's too. Which in plain English means the frame I knocked up in the shed last week is less desirable than I first thought ;-)

Nothing goes ahead until I meet up with some locals, they appear to have a meet on the last Thursday of the month, roll on the 27th.

The local BKA seem a little backward in coming forward, its over a week now since I emailed them or maybe I'm being a little too eager.

 

[benjamindonaldson]

Not sure if this is any cheaper but check this out. They are on sale at the moment but collection only.

http://www.thorne.co.uk/sale-days


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[Johnnifer]

Thanks for an interesting link, I'll most probably need to order by post as the nearest Thorne's sale day is probably a four hour round trip from here. Also I'm fairly sure the locals here will be using Nationals but I need to make sure before parting with any hard earned.

 

[benjamindonaldson]

Fair enough. There are a few others you could try like simon the beekeeper or Payne’s or BS honey at least for a comparison. There’s a lot to buy... hive tools, feeders, stands, beesuit... oh if only the wife knew...


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[Helen]

And of course, you can wait for the new year sales where you can find 'seconds' frames as well as overall sale prices.

 

[Johnnifer]

Thanks for the links. I've book marked simon the beekeeper, Payne’s and BS honey web sites for browsing later.

Beekeeping kit in the January sales now there's a plan. especially since I wasn't planning on parting with any hard earned until February or March. I've just noticed too that Thorne's have put there Bees on a Budget starter kit comprising of hive, smoker & cartridges, hive tool, leather gloves, jacket & veil, bee brush, 1 gallon feeder and mouseguard up from £230 to £250 in the last week :-(