Heather 2021

[Jimmy]

In what way didn't it marry up?

The predictably of a continental climate vs our changeable maritime climate for starters.

 

[Poly Hive]

Now then let's see. He was in America for a start and one of the warmer states if I remember. Massive colonies with multiple brood boxes that he crowded down and so on. In short, the crossover was limited, and I regretted the price of the book deeply. I just came across it and it was £7.

However, leafing through I found this: Square wooden sections were invented in 1857 by JS Harbison of California.

PH

 

[Jimmy]

Now then let's see. He was in America for a start and one of the warmer states if I remember. Massive colonies with multiple brood boxes that he crowded down and so on. In short, the crossover was limited, and I regretted the price of the book deeply. I just came across it and it was £7.


PH

He was an academic at various New York state universities so I guess he lived in NY state also.
If you still have copies of his book(s), a quick google suggests you should be able to recoup your £7.
It's several years since I read any of his books but if I recall correctly the quality of thought and writing was high, even if the advice was not directly transferable to the UK.

 

[Ian123]

He was an academic at various New York state universities so I guess he lived in NY state also.
If you still have copies of his book(s), a quick google suggests you should be able to recoup your £7.
It's several years since I read any of his books but if I recall correctly the quality of thought and writing was high, even if the advice was not directly transferable to the UK.

I liked his books and in particular comb honey production, they certainly gave some ideas.

 

[Brenda]

No the bees have to be seriously crowded for the square ones. What I did find was the circular comb sections were much easier to work with and the bees were a lot happier filling them completely. The main issue with the square ones is the corners are often left unfinished. Hence the invention of the round style. Unfortunately though they do involve rather a lot of plastic.

PH

Yes plastic rounds are very expensive to set up and replacement of spares are expensive when you come to work out selling price. The bees more readily accept these because it is more like wild comb working where the square is foreign to hexagon. Some beekeepers paint a little molten beeswax in the corners, hoping to entice the bees to work there for show work. I always check this when judging although not always possible.
I do not eat the midrib of sections or cut comb unless it is my own, as I only give a starter of manufactured wax to the bees, therefore know where the piece I do not eat is to discard. I go for quality not quantity.

 

[Brenda]

Another book to look out for

Old book from 40’s obtainable as reprint.

 

[Ian123]

The rounds in their own frames are simply better as you can rotate completed central frames to the outside. Not something simply done with square racks. Section frames are actually very good for a few sections. A couple of frames into the centre of a normal super make no difference and are readily completed. It’s just the cost of the hanging frames that make them expensive.

 

[elainemary]

The rounds in their own frames are simply better as you can rotate completed central frames to the outside. Not something simply done with square racks. Section frames are actually very good for a few sections. A couple of frames into the centre of a normal super make no difference and are readily completed. It’s just the cost of the hanging frames that make them expensive.

That’s what I did - just put one frame with 3 sections into a strong colony this year. Think more than that you may struggle to get the corners finished, will try again next year.
Don’t you need to use a whole crate for Ross rounds? Need to look into this to understand more
Anyone with experience of making sections ( or showing like Brenda) pls do share your tips

 

[elainemary]

Yes plastic rounds are very expensive to set up and replacement of spares are expensive when you come to work out selling price. The bees more readily accept these because it is more like wild comb working where the square is foreign to hexagon. Some beekeepers paint a little molten beeswax in the corners, hoping to entice the bees to work there for show work. I always check this when judging although not always possible.
I do not eat the midrib of sections or cut comb unless it is my own, as I only give a starter of manufactured wax to the bees, therefore know where the piece I do not eat is to discard. I go for quality not quantity.

Agree re quality vs quantity. Nice to try something new even if challenging to finish. Any more tips on producing sections or reading, pls do share Brenda, keen to learn how to do better next year

 

[Ian123]

That’s what I did - just put one frame with 3 sections into a strong colony this year. Think more than that you may struggle to get the corners finished, will try again next year.
Don’t you need to use a whole crate for Ross rounds? Need to look into this to understand more
Anyone with experience of making sections ( or showing like Brenda) pls do share your tips

Yes you use a whole crate with rounds but the sections are in frames. It just means you can move completed central frames to the outside and outside to the centre. The best trick for completion of sections is obviously a decent sized colony, but you must have a decent flow. Save the sections for a strong flow only!!!! Don’t bother with anything else. In my area that means summer. Also there’s a paranoia about getting them complete even to the corners, this maybe a consideration for showing but is irrelevant to the customer if sold by weight. Obviously I don’t mean some half capped half drawn thing but if it looks reasonable it’ll shift! This 1 wouldn’t go into a show but it’s more than adequate for sale if I hadn’t eaten it of course

 

[elainemary]

Yes you use a whole crate with rounds but the sections are in frames. It just means you can move completed central frames to the outside and outside to the centre. The best trick for completion of sections is obviously a decent sized colony, but you must have a decent flow. Save the sections for a strong flow only!!!! Don’t bother with anything else. In my area that means summer. Also there’s a paranoia about getting them complete even to the corners, this maybe a consideration for showing but is irrelevant to the customer if sold by weight. Obviously I don’t mean some half capped half drawn thing but if it looks reasonable it’ll shift! This 1 wouldn’t go into a show but it’s more than adequate for sale if I hadn’t eaten it of course

Thanks Ian that looks great. I’m planning on trying more next year and wondering whether to stick with a frame per colony or whether to try a whole section crate (prefer wooden to the plastic round ones). I have a really good heather flow here and a couple of really good colonies that pile in the heather mid - end Aug. What do you think to the whole crate idea on a v strong black bee colony on the heather flow. Would that work?
Ps I’d get the comb drawn on the spring flow then take off and save for the heather

 

[Ian123]

If your frames are working stick with them I think 2-3 in the middle of a super make little difference and are normally readily completed. I’ve generally placed racks above the brood boxes and below other completed supers at least to get them started. If you can get them drawn before all well and good but it sounds a faff! Black bees or not simple rules are strong colonies and decent flow for a good period. The ability to juggle the sections gives you a better completed percentage. Not complete can be saved for yourself or cut into chunk honey. It’s a case of spreading the extra cost/faff. If I could find a decent rigid box that would hold a similar size/weight you’d be better off with CC. But not quite the same product.

 

[Newbeeneil]

2 years ago I made a section box for a nuc which took 16 sections. I put this on a strong double nuc and got 8 saleable sections.
Would like to try it again on heather.

 

[Ian123]

Link won’t copy

 

[ericbeaumont]

Willie Smith’s “Art of Beekeeping” is the answer.

You're thinking of William Hamilton, Brenda: here's a copy for a tenner.

 

[Amari]

Theres no heath growing up on those hills, the only heath is on the Clee, interestingly enough it's still flowering.

I referred to 'bell heather', you replied referring to 'heath'.
After consulting my Readers Digest 'Field Guide to Wild Flowers' I think I've sussed the nomenclature:
'Heather' as folk use on this forum means 'Heather, commonly referred to in England as ling' = Calluna vulgaris. I call it ling.
Bell Heather: thrives on poor dry sandy soils - as per Dunwich Heath where my hives are = Erica cinerea. Ling coexists.
Cross-leaved Heath: grows in damp boggy places - presumably what you call 'heath' Curly = Erica tetralix.

 

[Curly green finger's]

I referred to 'bell heather', you replied referring to 'heath'.
After consulting my Readers Digest 'Field Guide to Wild Flowers' I think I've sussed the nomenclature:
'Heather' as folk use on this forum means 'Heather, commonly referred to in England as ling' = Calluna vulgaris. I call it ling.
Bell Heather: thrives on poor dry sandy soils - as per Dunwich Heath where my hives are = Erica cinerea. Ling coexists.
Cross-leaved Heath: grows in damp boggy places - presumably what you call 'heath' Curly = Erica tetralix.

Aren't all Erica's heath?
I wasn't sure which one was flowering here or even if we had both tetralix and cinerea flowering. I'll have to find the list. t
The darker one is still flowering

 

[Murox]

here is a handy visual link along with a short description of the heather types.

 

[Brenda]

That’s what I did - just put one frame with 3 sections into a strong colony this year. Think more than that you may struggle to get the corners finished, will try again next year.
Don’t you need to use a whole crate for Ross rounds? Need to look into this to understand more
Anyone with experience of making sections ( or showing like Brenda) pls do share your tips

Yes just ask me will try my best to answer.

 

[Amari]

Aren't all Erica's heath?
I wasn't sure which one was flowering here or even if we had both tetralix and cinerea flowering. I'll have to find the list. View attachment 28522tView attachment 28523
The darker one is still flowering

I guess it's a matter of word usage which may vary around the country. The leaves on your lower pic look like E. tetralix whereas the leaves on my 'bell heather' (that's the common name given in my flower book) are those of E. cinerea - as nicely shown in Murox's link below. I'm not sure about the leaves on your upper pic. The flowers of the two Ericas look identical so I'm happy to agree to 'heath' - avoiding confusing 'bell heather' with heather=ling=Calluna !