Have I lost a colony?

[Lesley Hoppy]

A couple of weeks ago both of my colonies were looking good. I had topped up their fondant supply and treated with OA early in January.
A couple of days ago on a very sunny day - with snow on the ground - there were hundreds of bees flying in and out of one hive - but not a single bee emerging from the other. Both hives are orientated in a similar way to get a similar amount of sunlight...
I peeped under the roof of the quiet hive and could not see any bees in the fondant - but did not lift the insulation or crown board because I did not want to chill the hive - should there still be live bees in there.
Could there be any other explanation for this lack of activity?

 

[Tonych224]

Not all colonies will behave the same as their neighbours.

It's very possible the bees were clustered and keeping warm. Unfortunately you probably won't know until you can lift the CB and take a peek.

I would have been more concerned with them flying in the snow.

 

[Finman]

.
It is better look inside than ask from internet. Then you look if they have capped food in frames. If so, take the fondant off and let them winter in peace.

No idea to activate them with fondant if they have food stores.

 

[Luminos]

When my first colony died last year, I could tell because the fondant was stone cold and brittle.
You could perhaps slide your hand between the insulation and the CB, you will feel if there's any warmth?

 

[oliver90owner]

One can often tell by the temperature of the crown board, without recourse to disturbing the bees, should they still be alive. A cheap stethoscope is another non- disturbing way to check for activity before opening up.

Edit: so in agreement with luminos

 

[Moggs]

Little to be gained from opening at this time of year. If they are weak, then chilling them could be the coupe de grâce. There are other non-intrusive methods of checking as described. These problems are more likely to show in the winter months, when bees are in torpor and when their resistance to all sorts of ailments is naturally low.

I'm afraid that it highlights the need to ensure so far as possible a good strong colony with hefty stores in autumn (UK). It is better to leave them undisturbed so that they have a fighting chance, feeding if emergency measures are called for. It may be unfortunate that even the challenge of moving over to fondant may be beyond them, if the cluster is weakened severely (though at least the temperatures have warmed, in many parts).

I have concerns at one apiary: a flooded pond has made the ground conditions decidedly soggy for many months - bees don't like damp and damp it is

 

[Chris B]

It's unlikely they've died, not if they were looking good such a short time ago and they have fondant plus whatever they might have in the comb.

I would leave them. But if curiosity gets the better of you, you'll do little or no harm by just popping the crown board on a dry mild day. I've had hives toppled, frames exposed for who knows how long in winter and the bees were fine.

An afterthought: isolation starvation can happen in the winter but it's relatively uncommon. I doubt it's what you have but nevertheless possible. Not too much you can do about it so no point in worrying.

 

[Winker]

To be honest, worrying about their health wont do you any good or the bees. If they are dead there is nothing you can do, other than close the hive up to stop robbing just in case it was disease.

Not all bees cluster at the top of the frames! So when you peek in you might think the hive is empty but in fact they may be hiding down the bottom of the frames eating their own stores rather than the fondant.

Leave them alone for a while, until some better weather gets here and have proper peek in. its 12C here today and the sun is shining, if I were to peek into my hives today would be a good choice.

 

[Fraise]

If you have an OMF then put a monitoring board in.
Within a few days you will have an indication of what is going on. If they are alive you will see lines of bee poo and maybe wax from cappings under the cluster on the monitoring board.
This saves opening the hive and stops you blaming yourself if you disturb the cluster.

 

[beeno]

Hi Lesley,
It's agony this beekeeping business! How strong was the hive in the first place? If you did not have many seams of bees and you OA in cold weather it could have killed them. I had a look in three of my colonies yday as it was a warm day here and I am concerned that they did not have enough stores going into winter. They were fine, but reduced number of bees, but that is to be expected. Put fondant on my PH a couple of days prior to that because they had eaten the first lot of fondant. Surprisingly, to me, the PH is the least active of my hives with good stores now, must be storing the fondant, and lots of bees. However, some come out the mouse guard holes and straight back in again. Perhaps this colony has no brood and the others do? Just looked at this have again. Not one bee out, but I could hear them when I put my ear to the hive. This hive does not get the morning sun, but the others do and they are out in force. So, perhaps still hope for yours.

 

[Chris B]

I've just been outside to look at the overwintering minihives in the garden. Bees flying strongly from some, collecting water and a few on snowdrops which have suddenly appeared from nowhere.
I popped the lid on a non-flyer and they looked absolutely fine too.

 

[enrico]

The simple way, get on your knees, put your ear flat against the wall of the brood box and listen. If there is a gentle buzz then they are alive. Tap the brood box once, the buzz will increase and decrease again, if it doesn't then they need feeding now.
Alternatively buy a stethoscope and use it regularly. You will soon get use to what your healthy bees sound like. Others may scoff but it does work!!!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes I agree
I listen to the bees every visit....just an ear is fine I find it better than a stethoscope.

 

[Lesley Hoppy]

Thanks for all your replies everyone - most reassuring - I hope!
It's a WBC so a stethoscope might be a good idea - I doubt whether I would hear anything through the outer walls without disassembling....
That colony had eaten an ice cream tub of fondant by Christmas and I replaced it a week before treating them with OA in early Jan - when they looked in good shape...
I feel a lot more hopeful now.

 

[Lesley Hoppy]

If you have an OMF then put a monitoring board in.
Within a few days you will have an indication of what is going on. If they are alive you will see lines of bee poo and maybe wax from cappings under the cluster on the monitoring board.
This saves opening the hive and stops you blaming yourself if you disturb the cluster.

Great idea. Will do that tomorrow

 

[REDWOOD]

Great idea. Will do that tomorrow

As said they all act differently in winter, the first winter I kept bees I thought one was dead no a murmur from them, gave a little tap and nothing, a few hard taps and they came flowing out to my horror (no suit) lol

 

[fincaazul]

went to allotment hives on Sunday, one had a couple of bees a minute flying, noticed air was thick with bees, one hive had bees pouring in and out and clustering around entrance. This hive (poly) has half the entrance filled with propolis. Checked an hour later and all quiet. I think there is much we do not know about Bee behaviour, they are all slightly different in genetic makeup and we do not observe them 24/7.

 

[Moggs]

No need for a stethoscope. A straight (and clean) stick/ rod/ screwdriver pressed to the ear at one end and hive at the other will do the job. Hints: locate the listening stick on to the tragus of the ear to avoid an uncomfortable experience, and keep the sharp end at the hive!!

 

[Chris B]

I had a call last week to say a hive had toppled but was intact. So I didn't go figuring it would be frozen to the ground, best to wait as no harm would come to them. Turned up this afternoon. Hive is on it's side, no floor or top so frames exposed both ends. But 4 seams of bees looked fine. One even tried to sting me when I put them back together.
Bees are surprisingly hardy if they can keep that critical mass together.
I remember also last January a local beekeeper discovered a colony on wild comb in the branches of a tree, very much alive. It must have been a swarm that got stranded but went unnoticed when the leaves obscured it.