Have I got laying workers?

[Linda G]

About 1 month ago I put the queen in a nuc because I wanted to perform a pre-emptive split for swarm control. There were drones present and the hive was very full, with 2 supers. The queen is good and I hoped the bees would make a replacement for her. After 4 days I removed all Q cells but one and did not disturb for 3 weeks. Meanwhile the queen rapidly filled the nuc box and I transferred them to a hive. I have since united this new colony with a defensive colony ( the queen has been removed). Yesterday I opened the original hive to find an empty q cell, no sign of a queen, no eggs or any kind of bias. However, I did find a lot of drone brood in the centre of several frames in the bottom super! It was a very regular pattern, all grouped together. I am guessing that this was laid by workers because there is a q excluder in place, and no sign of a queen. My question is, should I introduce another queen, or unite the colony with another? Will laying workers "go back to normal" or should I shake them out?

 

[JamezF]

If you couldn't find any eggs it doesn't sound like you have a laying anything.

If you took the queen out a month ago then a new one would only have emerged around ten days ago. It's possible she wouldn't have mated fully yet and perhaps she was out on a mating flight when you inspected. Or maybe she's just good at hiding and is waiting for suitable weather.

I think my first reaction would be to offer them a frame with eggs to see if they wanted to try to build queen cells. If they do then you know what's going on. If they don't then I think I'd probably watch what happens over the next couple of weeks before deciding on their fate.

James

 

[Linda G]

Thanks for answering my questions James. I agree that perhaps there is a virgin hiding, or could have been on a mating flight. However, I still cannot understand why there should be at least 4 super frames covered with capped drone brood. They must have been put there after I removed the queen, which is why I think it could be drone laying workers. I am worried about varroa so I have removed them. I will try a frame of eggs next.

 

[Newbeeneil]

About 1 month ago I put the queen in a nuc because I wanted to perform a pre-emptive split for swarm control. There were drones present and the hive was very full, with 2 supers. The queen is good and I hoped the bees would make a replacement for her. After 4 days I removed all Q cells but one and did not disturb for 3 weeks. Meanwhile the queen rapidly filled the nuc box and I transferred them to a hive. I have since united this new colony with a defensive colony ( the queen has been removed). Yesterday I opened the original hive to find an empty q cell, no sign of a queen, no eggs or any kind of bias. However, I did find a lot of drone brood in the centre of several frames in the bottom super! It was a very regular pattern, all grouped together. I am guessing that this was laid by workers because there is a q excluder in place, and no sign of a queen. My question is, should I introduce another queen, or unite the colony with another? Will laying workers "go back to normal" or should I shake them out?

You say you nuced the queen ABOUT a month ago, since it takes 24 days for drones to develop I would suggest the drone brood you saw was the last drone eggs laid by your queen.
With the weather we have been having I would not be surprised that you are not seeing eggs as mating could be difficult and I would leave at least another couple of weeks before being concerned. To put you mind at rest do as James suggests and put a test frame in.

 

[Antipodes]

Thanks for answering my questions James. I agree that perhaps there is a virgin hiding, or could have been on a mating flight. However, I still cannot understand why there should be at least 4 super frames covered with capped drone brood. They must have been put there after I removed the queen, which is why I think it could be drone laying workers. I am worried about varroa so I have removed them. I will try a frame of eggs next.

Just checking/clarifying....you didn't remove any brood frames from below the excluder and put them above the excluder did you?

 

[Linda G]

Thanks Antipodes. No, I didn't put any brood frames above the excluder. I've just checked the date I removed the queen. It was April 9th and I reduced the q cells to one on April 15th. Any drone brood layed by the former queen should have hatched out by now.

 

[Antipodes]

Thanks Antipodes. No, I didn't put any brood frames above the excluder. I've just checked the date I removed the queen. It was April 9th and I reduced the q cells to one on April 15th. Any drone brood layed by the former queen should have hatched out by now.

Perhaps have another look in the hive now and see if there are eggs in any cells....take a good magnifying glass if needed and if you see anything like eggs there, take a photo or two and post them here.

 

[enrico]

A possible thought, slim virgin got through the excluder and never mated? Can't think why you would have drone only above the excluder!

 

[Linda G]

Update on the possibility of laying workers. I put a frame with some eggs on both sides in the brood box on 14th May and the bees became very excited and covered the frame straight away, so I was hopeful. However, today I inspected it and found no queen cells had been drawn at all. I searched again for signs of a new queen, but all I found were drone cells dotted around the frames and uncapped drone larvae. The bees were also in a bad temper! I gave them another super as they seemed crowded, and they have made quite a lot of honey. I wish I knew what to do next. It seems terrible to shake them out, especially as there are so many of them, but I don't want to buy a queen for them because I think they will kill her.

 

[Antipodes]

Update on the possibility of laying workers. I put a frame with some eggs on both sides in the brood box on 14th May and the bees became very excited and covered the frame straight away, so I was hopeful. However, today I inspected it and found no queen cells had been drawn at all. I searched again for signs of a new queen, but all I found were drone cells dotted around the frames and uncapped drone larvae. The bees were also in a bad temper! I gave them another super as they seemed crowded, and they have made quite a lot of honey. I wish I knew what to do next. It seems terrible to shake them out, especially as there are so many of them, but I don't want to buy a queen for them because I think they will kill her.

Very much sounding like a shake out unfortunately. I wouldn't delay it further. It's incredible how quickly they will get accepted and it sounds like you have a good flow at the moment, which should help.