Have i done the right thing? Hive unite.

[dpearce4]

I have united 2 colonies using the newspaper method. I have done this because i thought i had a DLQ (as disccussed and agreed thanks to pics on here).

On saturday after some advice from on here i put a brood box with most of the frames and all the bees brushed off into a second BB with just 1 frame of brood/stores seperated with a QX on the bottom. When i was brushing the bees off on staurday i found 5 queen cups in the middle of one frame, there was no royal jelly in them. These i removed.

Today i went down to see if the queen was in the bottom BB but couldnt see her, the bees were very agitated and kept coming up at me when i moved any frames. As i couldnt see the Q and any eggs in the frame in the bottom box i went through the top box, couldnt see her (good thing i hope), but did see 3 more queen cups on the same frame as they were on on saturday.

As i didnt see any eggs im hoping she wasnt there and put all the frames ontop of the hive i wanted to unite them with, ontop of sheets of newspaper with a couple of slits as per everything i have read. Now as a back up i have put the QX between the 2 BB Just incase she is still there. and at the weekend will check to see if there are any eggs in that BB and if not remove the QX.

Have i done right? I dont want to leave the QX on all winter for obvious reasons so any comments would be welcome.

I know its going to be cold for the next couple of nights but they havent forcast frost where i am, will be a temp of about 4-6c night time. its a risk i have taken but have put 2in of celotex under the roof just to protect them a little more.

 

[drex]

You have looked for a queen in both boxes and have not seen a queen in either, but it sounds like you are uniting two colonies, each with a queen, one of which is a DLQ. You think you have a DLQ in one box? Do you have a good queen in the other?

Before uniting you should kill or remove one of the queens ( in this situation, the DLQ), - so that they are all being united to the one queen.

If you have two queens in there, when you remove the QE, the DLQ could kill your good queen.

I only use a QE to hold the paper down if there is a lot of wind, otherwise do not bother.

Once united you can then sort out the frames.

It has been a cold old day here, much too cold for such manipulations. If I am right in my assumptions the DLQ needs despatching before you remove the QE.

Wiser members may be along shortly

 

[dpearce4]

Hi drex.

sorry if my original post was a bit confusing, having re read it, it does seem to be.

on saturday the idea was to seperate the Q and the thousands of drones that were in the original hive into the bottom box, the bottom box was a spare that i had. when i looked in there today the drones were all gone which was greatas it made it much easier to look through, and im hoping also the queen to as i couldnt see her.

what im hoping is that on saturday when the weather is a little warmer i will be able to have a good look through the brood box that i united just to tripple check that she isnt in there or eggs before i remove the queen excluder. I havent seen here for a few weeks when looking just lots of drone brood cells, it maybe that she wasnt in there for the last few times anyway.

the top brood box has been united onto a much stronger hive that has a good laying Q in.

 

[Chris B]

The forecast for the weekend is quite warm.
I would check them then and if things haven't become clear then shake all bees from the DLQ box out in front of the hive, put the QX under the bottom brood box, and place the DLQ box above the good box. Workers can make their way back in but drones and the dud queen (if she's around) will be excluded. This of course is assuming you don't find and kill the DLQ or you are certain enough she's already gone, which is a distinct possibility.
Good luck.

 

[drstitson]

surely what you wanted to do was brush ALL bees into EMPTY bottom box, replace QE and brood box and frames. i'd add a top entrance and close bottom one. next day should have drones and queen in bottom box and everyone else mostly busy upstairs

BUT DLQ/LW drones will tend to be small and may cross excluder BUT HM shouldn't.

 

[dpearce4]

hi Dr

thats basically what i did but didnt change the hive entrance to the top. it sort of worked as there were no drones around today apart from a few in the top box that had emerged since saturday. Also while moving the frames into their new home i did have a quick look and couldnt see any eggs.

 

[Finman]

.
Don't hesitate with your queen.

If you cannot see her, take a larva comb from another hive. Mark it and look it 3days later.
Probably the queen is on the comb. But if there are queen cells, bees do not like the queen or she is dead.

 

[oliver90owner]

Chis's method is assuming the DLQ already cannot negotiate the Q/E. If she could, she would likely have been scrapping with the good queen already. I have always been told that a double Q/E was needed to really keep queens apart, so possibly sorted already -one way or another. Beware the risk of killing the only queen there.

I would leave two frames down stairs when separating the queen from the rest of the bees. Carried away and left in the light, she will be on the inner sides of the frames (and not hiding in any nook or cranny available).

RAB

 

[dpearce4]

Hi Rab

opps. i will know that for the future about the double queen excluder. lol

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Hi guys.

Sorry - tried the sticky about acronyms.

What is DLQ.?

Adrian

 

[Headnavigator]

Hi guys.

Sorry - tried the sticky about acronyms.

What is DLQ.?

Adrian

Drone laying queen

 

[GregoryRobbins]

Drone Laying Queen ie a queen that has failed to mate properly or has run out of fertile eggs. In the situation described above tho I would suspect a worker bee has come into lay in the absence of a queen and she will only be capable of producing drones. She would of course be able to negotiate a queen excluder and would very very difficult to identify amongst her siblings! I would look for characteristic egg laying patterns.

 

[oliver90owner]

I would suspect a worker bee has come into lay in the absence of a queen I would look for characteristic egg laying patterns.....

Look here, at the pics. Then decide.

BTW running out of sperm reserves is more accurate than running out of fertile eggs as a possible reason for a DLQ. Same difference, but describes the root cause better.

RAB

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Thanks GR.

Made it really clear; I'll make a note.




Love this forum!

Informed opinion spiced with the odd wounded narcissistic ego.

Gladdens my professional heart.

 

[dpearce4]

Just to let you all know the outcome of this thread.

i opened up the upper brood box today to see if i could find the queen. glad i did, 3rd frame in there were eggs, some cells with 2 eggs in and there was HM big and bold walking across the frame, i grabbed her and popped her in to a holder. put the frames back in that box, lifted it off out of the way.

i then took the QEx off and the paper that was partly munched, had a quick check of the brood box below to check there were eggs in there, there was and it was all worker brood. YES!!!!

put the frames back in the box put the upper brood box back on, then did my shut down, mouse guard etc.

the Q i found in the upper box is now residing in a small bottle of pure alcohol, read to use as a lure next year.

i feel like i have done the right thing now after doubting what i had done. i just hope it goes through the winter well now.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Good news.

What an anxiety-provoking 'hobby'.

 

[dpearce4]

definatly that Dusty.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

So, why do you do it?

Addicted to adrenalin or something?

 

[dpearce4]

yep and cant do sports anymore due to health issues lol