Has anyone had worse overwintering by switching to poly?

[Fusion_power]

Poly Hive, have you actually read the article as published in ABJ? Part 1 can mostly be ignored but part 2 has some very intriguing statements.

these bees were found to be evaporating more water from their bodies than they produced as a "waste product" through their metabolic conversion of honey sugars.

Bees in the warmth of the central region (of the cluster) have a lower metabolic rate and will produce less water than they are evaporating.

Bees in the outer shell (of the cluster) will generate more heat energy, will consume more honey, and will, consequently, accumulate more metabolic water than they can evaporate in this colder region.

Moving into the center (of the cluster) in order to dry out is the solution for bees of the outer shell

When the hive is too insulated and too warm for a mild climate, thirst-crazy bees were driven out to fly at the slightest excuse; not to gambol in the sunshine, but to collect water.

So the reason for bees cycling from the outside to the inside of the winter cluster is not to warm up, it is so they can dry out from all the excess water they produced when they were in the outer shell.

In a highly insulated hive, net water production falls short of needs. When too many bees become water deficient, they fly out in a desperate bid to forage for water.

Edit to add that Mobus defined a "normal" winter colony as 10,000 to 15,000 bees. This is enough to cover about 4 or 5 Langstroth frames when clustered.

 

[Poly Hive]

Yes I have but.... Bernard went on to start experimenting with OMF floors and was intrigued when the first poly hives appeared with mesh floors although not as large as we now know them, the first ones were but 9" square. This seemed to help resolve the moisture issue.

I also attended his "Expert Beekeeper" Easter course twice, once as a student and once as his helper/gofor. It was a tour de force starting on the Friday at 7pm finishing about 10, then Sat, 9 to 9, Sunday the same, and Monday morning for 4 hours followed by the exam. He didn't sip water, he showed a couple of films, short ones and the rest was him talking. I struggle to do 2 hours personally. Awesome experience.

PH

 

[Finman]

Over winter, the colony did not metabolize enough honey which is the primary source of water.

What has happened to those colonies then?

In the UK bees get through the winter enough water from soil. That is why hives can keep their brood in the middle of winter.

Have you ever heard that somewhere hives die for lack of water?

 

[ASPIRERITE]

I find my polly hives overwinter better and expand faster. I have two brood boxes on each and make sure all my top brood frames are full of honey and pollen then my job is done and whatever else they collect is a bonus. Any leftover honey at the start of the next season is great for nucleus hives in the frame or fed in a jar

 

[tidymeup]

The difference between my timber hives and poly ones is astonishing, it's a good year so far and colonies are general quite large and consistent.

However the colonies in my poly kit are something else, consistently bigger overall and consistently heavier and not a single loss in poly kit.

This is my 3rd year with over 100 colonies and a mixture of 50/50 wood/poly.

I am so convinced that the timber kit has to go, 100 units up for sale asap!

 

[ASPIRERITE]

The difference between my timber hives and poly ones is astonishing, it's a good year so far and colonies are general quite large and consistent.

However the colonies in my poly kit are something else, consistently bigger overall and consistently heavier and not a single loss in poly kit.

This is my 3rd year with over 100 colonies and a mixture of 50/50 wood/poly.

I am so convinced that the timber kit has to go, 100 units up for sale asap!

Yep my polly hives have put my timber ones to shame. When at the start of a season I can fill a hive body with a nucleus I left with two brood chambers at the end of the last season there's No comparison. Polly rules and when you get the hang of it late splits turn into full hives over winter

 

[wightbees]

I did some late splits and they have come this far looking very good, all in poly! But I have mixture of wood and poly Nucs and it's not a lot in it really., but it's been very mild down here.

 

[JEP]

The difference between my timber hives and poly ones is astonishing, it's a good year so far and colonies are general quite large and consistent.

However the colonies in my poly kit are something else, consistently bigger overall and consistently heavier and not a single loss in poly kit.

This is my 3rd year with over 100 colonies and a mixture of 50/50 wood/poly.

I am so convinced that the timber kit has to go, 100 units up for sale asap!

Is all the wooden kit you are selling langstroth and is it cedar or pine? How many floors, brood boxes, supers, crownboards and roofs and what price would you accept for the whole lot? You can PM me if you prefer.

Ps Please remember that wooden hives are obsolete these days when you work out a deal for me.

James

 

[Poly Hive]

"Obsolete" LOLOL

Waited 25 years to see that. Better let Thornes know.

Excellent.

PH

 

[B+.]

Please remember that wooden hives are obsolete these days when you work out a deal for me.

Nice try JEP.
Wood is far from obsolete. I have lots of wooden hives.
I think wood is more common in areas that have access to cheap(er) timber. In the UK, you can buy a polyhive for less than the price of a wooden one now.

 

[GuyNir]

Ps Please remember that wooden hives are obsolete these days when you work out a deal for me.

James

Excellent JEP . Hope your hard hat is close by...

 

[tidymeup]

Is all the wooden kit you are selling langstroth and is it cedar or pine? How many floors, brood boxes, supers, crownboards and roofs and what price would you accept for the whole lot? You can PM me if you prefer.

Ps Please remember that wooden hives are obsolete these days when you work out a deal for me.

James

100 langstroth pine broods assembled and painted.
100 floors made from douglass fir
70 roofs made from douglass fir/pine
80 deep crownboards/some other thinner ones.

verious other roofs, crownboards and broods available also.

many parts unused and considered new.

 

[Finman]

.
Fusion sent to me the papers of Mobus.

There are many views in explanation and one is that I Scotland hives start brooding many times during winter and then they stop again. What are the reasons, cold, warm spells, lack of water or pollen is finish...

Lack of water that they could rear their brood in winter! So give to them water....
Of course not. Bees should have winter rest and winter is not a time to rear brood.

Pollen....? When bees rear brood, they need pollen and winter pollen stores are soon finish. should we give pollen...... No, why heck!

Mobus shows numbers that non insulated hives consume twice that much food as insulated hives...brooding of non brooding hives?


I do not know, what is like to keep hives in Scotland and I do not need to.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

"Obsolete" LOLOL

Waited 25 years to see that. Better let Thornes know.

Excellent.

PH

I don't think that wood is obsolete just yet.

However I think of Kodak who invented the digital camera but could never bring themselves to replace their film products. And Blockbuster who are no longer in business as we use Netflix instead.

Thornes should have developed a poly model years' ago and with their market presence might have been able to become the 'standard' which others would copy/emulate thus solving the current problem of incompatible poly boxes. As it is, my guess is that sales of wooden hives will (continue to?) reduce compared to poly which will only increase in sales over time.
Thornes purchased EH Taylor may years ago. Will a poly supplier buy Thornes one day as a result of them not moving with the times?
(Sorry, slightly off topic I know!).

 

[ASPIRERITE]

I don't think that wood is obsolete just yet.

However I think of Kodak who invented the digital camera but could never bring themselves to replace their film products. And Blockbuster who are no longer in business as we use Netflix instead.

Thornes should have developed a poly model years' ago and with their market presence might have been able to become the 'standard' which others would copy/emulate thus solving the current problem of incompatible poly boxes. As it is, my guess is that sales of wooden hives will (continue to?) reduce compared to poly which will only increase in sales over time.
Thornes purchased EH Taylor may years ago. Will a poly supplier buy Thornes one day as a result of them not moving with the times?
(Sorry, slightly off topic I know!).

Timber hives wont be obsolete for me until I can get a polly hive with two brood boxes and three supers for £30 because that's what I make timber hives for and use two brood boxes I make them out of pine and use brood boxes as supers but wont disclose my source of timber because id be stupid to do that because my costs would rise