Green desert

[polomadh]

I have just been to one of my Abelo poly hives that I was asked to put in a garden in the middle of “nowhere”. It has a large meadow of around 1-2 acres that the owners are rewilding, but apart from that it is surrounded by large fields used for cattle grazing.

A month or so ago it had 1 capped and full super and one filling super, so I thought I would be extracting one super, however when I checked it was pretty much starving, having consumed the stores. In a bumper year for my other hives it was really surprising to see so little stores at this time of year.

There were no signs of wasps, and the hive is otherwise healthy.

It was the same last year, I didn’t take any honey. I had a hive and a nuc in the same place, but only the nuc made it through.

My point is that it is really alarming that there is so little forage in areas that would be considered “the country side of green fields”. It’s not surprising that there is so little wildlife in the countryside if there isn’t sufficient to support honeybees.

Feeling very sad and alarmed.

 

[The Poot]

I have just been to one of my Abelo poly hives that I was asked to put in a garden in the middle of “nowhere”. It has a large meadow of around 1-2 acres that the owners are rewilding, but apart from that it is surrounded by large fields used for cattle grazing.

A month or so ago it had 1 capped and full super and one filling super, so I thought I would be extracting one super, however when I checked it was pretty much starving, having consumed the stores. In a bumper year for my other hives it was really surprising to see so little stores at this time of year.

There were no signs of wasps, and the hive is otherwise healthy.

It was the same last year, I didn’t take any honey. I had a hive and a nuc in the same place, but only the nuc made it through.

My point is that it is really alarming that there is so little forage in areas that would be considered “the country side of green fields”. It’s not surprising that there is so little wildlife in the countryside if there isn’t sufficient to support honeybees.

Feeling very sad and alarmed.

I have the same around me and have to be careful to avoid starvation. It’s been the worst I’ve known this August - nothing coming in.
If it wasn’t for brambles in the field boundary hedges, the bees would have a very difficult time. Around this time all the hedges are savagely cut back, losing the berries and fruits that the birds rely on, creating the green desert effect you describe.
I started feeding at an early stage this year and it’s proving difficult to get the hives to a good weight, with ivy nowhere near flowering yet.
I share your sadness…..

 

[Anduril]

I have just been to one of my Abelo poly hives that I was asked to put in a garden in the middle of “nowhere”. It has a large meadow of around 1-2 acres that the owners are rewilding, but apart from that it is surrounded by large fields used for cattle grazing.

A month or so ago it had 1 capped and full super and one filling super, so I thought I would be extracting one super, however when I checked it was pretty much starving, having consumed the stores. In a bumper year for my other hives it was really surprising to see so little stores at this time of year.

There were no signs of wasps, and the hive is otherwise healthy.

It was the same last year, I didn’t take any honey. I had a hive and a nuc in the same place, but only the nuc made it through.

My point is that it is really alarming that there is so little forage in areas that would be considered “the country side of green fields”. It’s not surprising that there is so little wildlife in the countryside if there isn’t sufficient to support honeybees.

Feeling very sad and alarmed.

When I look at an out apiary site, I look at the hedgerows to see what plants are there. If the owners are rewilding, are they using plants suitable for honeybees.
When I first started out, my first out apiary turned out to be unsuitable, admittedly the fields were arable land, but the hedgerows couldn't sustain one hive.

 

[philipm]

I very rarely cut the hedges around our fields so usually plenty of forage, but this year has been so up and down with the weather that the bees have been unable to get much for days on end.Yesterday even though it was raining they were all over the ivy.

 

[ericbeaumont]

very rarely cut the hedges around our fields

Are you a farmer, Philip? For a long while I've wanted to know why farmers flail hedges to that suburban height. Can understand it if a hedge affects access or road safety, but they savage them everywhere.

Think of the labour, the fuel, the machinery! Why do it?

 

[madasafish]

Are you a farmer, Philip? For a long while I've wanted to know why farmers flail hedges to that suburban height. Can understand it if a hedge affects access or road safety, but they savage them everywhere.

Think of the labour, the fuel, the machinery! Why do it?

Either council contracted to or legal duty

 

[Erichalfbee]

Either council contracted to or legal duty

Around fields?
Roadside I can understand

 

[The Poot]

Are you a farmer, Philip? For a long while I've wanted to know why farmers flail hedges to that suburban height. Can understand it if a hedge affects access or road safety, but they savage them everywhere.

Think of the labour, the fuel, the machinery! Why do it?

I found the requirements set out on an NFU site, which don’t reflect what’s happening. Here, the field hedges are flailed every year.
I’ve never seen an assessment carried out before flailing, but I may continually miss them…..

 

[ericbeaumont]

hedges are flailed every year

Thanks for the info, Mr Poot; you notice that it fails to regulate final hedge height or width. Were it to do so, an increase in hedge wildlife would result. As it is, some I have seen have been reduced to a metre. Don't farmers want to reduce wind erosion and trespass? I've just had a chat with a farmer about illegal hare-coursing on his land by travellers, but his short hedges makes access too easy.

Hedge rules in force since 23 May 2024, but without mention of dimension: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/hedgerow-management-rules-cutting-and-trimming

BE3 option of the RPA payments requires a hedge to be 2m high and 1.5m wide and cut variably, but this looks to be the luxury environmental option. https://www.gov.uk/countryside-stewardship-grants/management-of-hedgerows-be3

 

[The Poot]

Thanks for the info, Mr Poot; you notice that it fails to regulate final hedge height or width. Were it to do so, an increase in hedge wildlife would result. As it is, some I have seen have been reduced to a metre. Don't farmers want to reduce wind erosion and trespass? I've just had a chat with a farmer about illegal hare-coursing on his land by travellers, but his short hedges makes access too easy.

Hedge rules in force since 23 May 2024, but without mention of dimension: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/hedgerow-management-rules-cutting-and-trimming

BE3 option of the RPA payments requires a hedge to be 2m high and 1.5m wide and cut variably, but this looks to be the luxury environmental option. https://www.gov.uk/countryside-stewardship-grants/management-of-hedgerows-be3

I recall a farmer telling me, in the days of set aside, that her hedges had to be cut annually to certain heights, in order to qualify for EU sponsored subsidies. She said that land was surveyed from the air to verify conformity. Perhaps old habits die hard.
I don’t think farmers would spend so much on diesel and contractors if it wasn’t in some way financially beneficial or mandatory.

 

[ericbeaumont]

don’t think farmers would spend so much on diesel and contractors if it wasn’t in some way financially beneficial or mandatory

You'd think so, but the basic regs don't determine height except when claiming from the the B3 enviro fund. I should have asked the farmer this morning, but I'll try and remember to do so when I take him honey next week.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

at one time farmers were encouraged to leave their hedges grow out more (thus leaving less grazeable/arable area in each field) then in one fell swoop they changed it and penalised farmers if their hedgerows were wider than a metre or so (can't remember the specified width) which meant then that flailing the hedges right back became the norm.
Another side issue is with the increase in size and weight of the modern tractor, that farmers get in with their machines early in the autumn to cut hedges as winters have got so wet machinery gets bogged down or at least trash the fields to a quagmire, thus the forage that wild birds used to depend on disappears before the winters set right in. They also flail them right down so they stay as manageable as possible for longer.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I have just been to one of my Abelo poly hives that I was asked to put in a garden in the middle of “nowhere”. It has a large meadow of around 1-2 acres that the owners are rewilding, but apart from that it is surrounded by large fields used for cattle grazing.

A month or so ago it had 1 capped and full super and one filling super, so I thought I would be extracting one super, however when I checked it was pretty much starving, having consumed the stores. In a bumper year for my other hives it was really surprising to see so little stores at this time of year.

There were no signs of wasps, and the hive is otherwise healthy.

It was the same last year, I didn’t take any honey. I had a hive and a nuc in the same place, but only the nuc made it through.

My point is that it is really alarming that there is so little forage in areas that would be considered “the country side of green fields”. It’s not surprising that there is so little wildlife in the countryside if there isn’t sufficient to support honeybees.

Feeling very sad and alarmed.

Welcome to beekeeping reality. If you want nectar for the bees to forage you need to find a síte close to nectar producing flora. Note that you need somewhere that has nectar availability throughout the beekeeping season.

 

[Antipodes]

Note that you need somewhere that has nectar availability throughout the beekeeping season.

I've realised that one of the greatest differences with beekeeping here, compared to the UK, is that there is a lot of moving of hives down here to different forage or flows throughout the season. I can't think of anywhere here that has nectar available all season (except a little in urban areas), but bees are moved to "chase" the flows of various plants as they flower en masse. I can see it is a difficult and different situation in the UK with the crops that you grow and the trees/plants etc. so it's not really the done thing over there, perhaps heather flowering sometimes being an exception?

 

[ericbeaumont]

heather flowering ... an exception

Yes, and though beefarmers will travel travel halfway across England for it, I have permananent hives in a regular borage area. Sweet chestnut is another good source if you can find decent mature plantings (rare in the UK), and lime.

UK has the advantage (esp. in urban and semi-rural areas) of a broad range of minor forage to support colonies outside those main flows.

 

[philipm]

Think a lot of the hedge cutting is down to the farmers mindset some cut the hedge down to an inch of its life others only cut when required. A lot of it stems from the EU grant system. Hopefully now times are harder for farmers we will see less waste of time,fuel and money.

 

[Antipodes]

Think a lot of the hedge cutting is down to the farmers mindset some cut the hedge down to an inch of its life others only cut when required. A lot of it stems from the EU grant system. Hopefully now times are harder for farmers we will see less waste of time,fuel and money.

Is hedgelaying disappearing somewhat in the UK? I always thought that hedges were done "properly" in the UK?

https://paulineconolly.com/2020/hawthorn-hedging-along-tasmanias-midland-highway/

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Is hedgelaying disappearing somewhat in the UK? I always thought that hedges were done "properly" in the UK?

https://paulineconolly.com/2020/hawthorn-hedging-along-tasmanias-midland-highway/

I've laid hedges as a younger man. My joints say I can't do it any more I'm afraid.

 

[Gunner]

We have some individuals continuing the hedgelaying craft: Hedgerow Management - Richard Negus

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

There are plenty of people still hedgelaying. personally I know a few people who spend their winters out laying hedges - contracted to do so by other landowners. In fact, some ten or so years ago there were regenaration grants availably with Welsh Government under the tir cymen scheme (I think) with farmers being encouraged to cut down ailing/straggly hedges to the base to encourage new growth so that a few years later the hedges could be relaid, the grants included money to put up fences to replace/protect the hedges until they grew back the pigwire they used was not as good quality as normal as it wasn't meant to last forever, if I remember it had a greenish tint and people around here labelled the cheaper wire 'tir cymen wire'
Of course, every area has its own hedging style, our area has a method which is much easier to work and just lays the branches down and secures them with forked sticks made from the thinnings they discard, when the ditches were then cleaned, the soil dug out would be deposited on top of the hedge which slowly over the years would develop into a bank with the hedge growing through it. Hedgelayers in the Rhandirmwyn area were renowned for their neat, good looking hedges which also entailed weaving the new horizontals through vertical stakes making the hedges virtually indestructible and they were much in demand in the surrounding area