Good morning from Devizes

[SavvySalli]

Hello, I'm looking forward to reading through here, getting my questions answered and reading all the other issues in prep for when I have them!

I'm keeping someone else's bees as she's away a lot and we just received the first nuc last week. I'm a beginner too (have done the beginner course and will be continuing training) so this is all nerve wracking!

I'm using a national with a pitched roof, against advice! It's all new and I coated it with Linseed oil outside. There's a clear crown board of polycarb/perspex and we cut a hole in the middle for the rapid feeder.

The new bees are very calm and steady, just getting on with their work, taking some syrup but they're in a field of grass surrounded by hawthorn and many other flowering shrubs/trees so are obviously bringing in enough not to need much syrup. We're growing vegetation intentionally for the June gap and early spring.

They're building brace comb between the DN frames, but I have SNs and didn't know the nucleus would be on DNs so have to order plastic spacers. They've also just started to build comb on the SN frames which is really satisfying! I know that they're settling in and that the queen's laying. First inspection is next week, apart from through the board which doesn't count!

My first question is about the crown board as I see that there's some condensation on it and I'm not sure if it's of concern as I know that they need moisture in the hive.

Anyway, looking forward to reading and learning lots on here!

 

[Robbo8916]

Hello and to the mad house!

With regards to condensation. Do you have a OMF? If so is the inspection tray out? That should allow adequate ventilation through the hive and prevent condensation.

Good luck with your beekeeping!

 

[charlievictorbravo]

As with all beekeeping questions, you'll get a variety of answers and you have to decide which one makes the most sense to you, 'cos they're your bees.

Condensation is caused when warm moist air meets a cold surface. You can solve this by trying to remove the warm moist air or you could, as I would recommend, reduce to temperature difference between the air and the external surfaces. You can do this by adding insulation, particularly at the top of the hive, as heat rises. Insulating the walls also helps to keep the bees warm in the winter and reduces the amount of winter stores consumed to maintain colony temperature.

Figure out a way to re-insert the piece of clear plastic that you cut out of the cover board to accommodate the feeder, so that it can revert to a solid clear cover board when the feeder is not being used. Clear cb's are so useful but with a hole in it, the bees would lose all that warmth that they've spent time and energy building up.

Good luck with your beekeeping.

CVB

 

[SavvySalli]

Thanks for your welcomes and ideas!

The hole in the board has a 'plug' for the winter when insulated, I'll make some insulation for now, the weather has been colder than expected at the moment as well, although the bees are bringing in pollen.

Someone else on here has drilled 3mm holes in each corner to help with the ventilation, is that not a good idea? I understand the condensation issue though so will still put something on there - I have sheet polystyrene which I can cut to shape around the rapid feeder.

I presume that I'll have a filled super on by the end of the season, with their own honey to feed them, but nonetheless will have to feed them paste. How does the paste get fed when there's insulation on the crown board? Or does the insulation only sit in the roof?

I'm not sure what an OM floor is but I have an ASA one and I would have thought that there's plenty of air coming in, and the hive is facing south.

I see that several people on here only use perspex crown boards now so I know I'm not bucking the trend too much!

I have so many questions to ask about all sorts of things! Right now I'm trying to learn the Hooper's Five and a colony assessment form for my first inspection.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Thanks for your welcomes and ideas!

The hole in the board has a 'plug' for the winter when insulated, I'll make some insulation for now, the weather has been colder than expected at the moment as well, although the bees are bringing in pollen.

Someone else on here has drilled 3mm holes in each corner to help with the ventilation, is that not a good idea? I understand the condensation issue though so will still put something on there - I have sheet polystyrene which I can cut to shape around the rapid feeder.

I presume that I'll have a filled super on by the end of the season, with their own honey to feed them, but nonetheless will have to feed them paste. How does the paste get fed when there's insulation on the crown board? Or does the insulation only sit in the roof?

I'm not sure what an OM floor is but I have an ASA one and I would have thought that there's plenty of air coming in, and the hive is facing south.

I see that several people on here only use perspex crown boards now so I know I'm not bucking the trend too much!

I have so many questions to ask about all sorts of things! Right now I'm trying to learn the Hooper's Five and a colony assessment form for my first inspection.

Hello, I'm looking forward to reading through here, getting my questions answered and reading all the other issues in prep for when I have them!

I'm keeping someone else's bees as she's away a lot and we just received the first nuc last week. I'm a beginner too (have done the beginner course and will be continuing training) so this is all nerve wracking!

I'm using a national with a pitched roof, against advice! It's all new and I coated it with Linseed oil outside. There's a clear crown board of polycarb/perspex and we cut a hole in the middle for the rapid feeder.

The new bees are very calm and steady, just getting on with their work, taking some syrup but they're in a field of grass surrounded by hawthorn and many other flowering shrubs/trees so are obviously bringing in enough not to need much syrup. We're growing vegetation intentionally for the June gap and early spring.

They're building brace comb between the DN frames, but I have SNs and didn't know the nucleus would be on DNs so have to order plastic spacers. They've also just started to build comb on the SN frames which is really satisfying! I know that they're settling in and that the queen's laying. First inspection is next week, apart from through the board which doesn't count!

My first question is about the crown board as I see that there's some condensation on it and I'm not sure if it's of concern as I know that they need moisture in the hive.

Anyway, looking forward to reading and learning lots on here!

Welcome.
Can I ask if you are clear in your mind about the frames you are using, especially since you mentioned brace comb.
Dn frames are deep national (brood box normally)
Sn frames are shallow national (super box normally)
The number following indicates the spacer method. Viz Dn1 has no spacing shoulder and requires either castellated supports to hold the combs the correct distance apart or plastic spacers to thread onto the lugs. Dn4 has a spacing shoulder at either side and these frames need pushing tight together so the shoulders touch which ensures the correct spacing.
Incorrect spacing is a prime candidate for causing brace comb problems.
The condensation issue has been covered elsewhere.
Good luck with the reading. Knowledge is key to progress.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Welcome.
Can I ask if you are clear in your mind about the frames you are using, especially since you mentioned brace comb.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=544475&postcount=15

Someone else on here has drilled 3mm holes in each corner to help with the ventilation, is that not a good idea?

No basically - pointless anyway as the way forward is to have a slab of 50mm kingspan/celotex covering the crown board all year round (this alone will solve your condensation problems.
I glue the insulation permanently inside the roof (wall to wall - no need for those ventilation holes as long as the insulation sits flat against the underside of the roof

I presume that I'll have a filled super on by the end of the season, with their own honey to feed them, but nonetheless will have to feed them paste.

You may not have a full super by the end of this season - concentrate on building up your colony strong for the winter, and remember if you leave a super full of stores on for the winter remove the queen excluder or risk losing your colony. Nothing wrong with taking the super of honey for yourself and feeding the bees syrup for the winter.
By paste I assume you mean baker's fondant - just fill a plastic takeaway container full of fondant, invert it over the feed hole in the crownboard and surround it with a slab of kingspan with a hole cut in the middle for the tub.
You don't have to give them fondant - it's only needed if they are getting low on stores by the end of the winter and need a topup

I'm not sure what an OM floor is but I have an ASA one and I would have thought that there's plenty of air coming in, .

Open Mesh Floor sometimes incorrectly described as a varroa floor

 

[charlievictorbravo]

The insulation solution that I have decided upon is like a deep, flat roof with an aluminium cover to shed water. This is made of 50mm Celotex and the sides are big enough to cover my 14x12 plywood brood box - keeps it warm both summer and winter but on the odd day when our temperature is high, it keeps the hive cool.

Here's a couple of pictures to show what I've described. These are home-made and the trickiest part was making the aluminium cover (red in the photos) but there may be other solutions for shedding rain, etc..

By reducing heat losses, you reduce the amount of stores bees need to consume to survive, which in the summer means more honey for you and in the winter means less money spent on feeding the bees. You may find "old-time" beekeepers take the attitude that "I've never insulated my hives and it's never done my bees any harm" but they don't tell you how much they spend on winter feed or how many colonies they lose over winter. The general feeling on this forum is INSULATE - even poly hive benefit from a bit of top insulation, apparently. Probably the best solution is to buy a poly hive to start with but we're at where we're at with regard to existing wooden hives.

Hope this helps clarify your thoughts.

CVB

 

[madasafish]

I make hive roofs like CVB but without the aluminium roof. I just paint the insulation with any paint I can find - must be green - and repaint as and when.

(Not leaving lit smokers on the roof assists its longevity

 

[wessexmario]

Hi Salli,

I have clear coverboards but wouldn't cut holes in them.
Instead I just use a standard wooden cover with a hole when feeding, as you can't see much though a transparent one when it's covered by a feeder.

Whether feeding or not, it's a good idea to have insulation on top of the hive all year around because even summer evenings can get cold, and they need to keep the brood at 35C.
It's the temperature difference that makes condensation...
with insulation - warm roof, warm air inside - no condensation.
with ventilation - cool roof, cool air inside - no condensation.
the problem is, the latter means much more energy needed to be supplied by the bees to keep the brood warm, more food consumed, and less other work done.

Nothing wrong with a pointy roof as long as the bees can't get inside and build comb there - stuff it full of more insulation! - but I can see why some beeks don't like them, as if you don't have somewhere else suitably flat (like a spare board on your hivestand) then an upturned flat roof does provide somewhere to stack boxes as you work through a hive.

 

[SavvySalli]

My problem with the frames is that I have SN1s and the nucleus came on DNs so there's no frame spacing and the bees apparently aren't satisfied with the space hence the brace comb - I'm assuming. I'm trying to get coloured narrow spacers/ends but incredibly difficult to find them in small packages - why would I need 100s of spacers, unless they're also used for marking brood frames, and left and right? I've ordered some now from our local Thorne outlet - I hope anyway, waiting for a reply!

 

[SavvySalli]

I will put some insulation in tomorrow, I'm sure there's some of that Celotex lying around.

The idea of keeping the whole brood box insulated around it is great, except that we have this lovely new cedar hive! Is there another way of keeping the brood box warmer, as well as insulating the roof?

 

[Gilberdyke John]

My problem with the frames is that I have SN1s and the nucleus came on DNs so there's no frame spacing and the bees apparently aren't satisfied with the space hence the brace comb - I'm assuming. I'm trying to get coloured narrow spacers/ends but incredibly difficult to find them in small packages - why would I need 100s of spacers, unless they're also used for marking brood frames, and left and right? I've ordered some now from our local Thorne outlet - I hope anyway, waiting for a reply!

As with so many other things eBay is your friend for sourcing "stuff" at sensible prices. Look out for Simon the Beekeeper who runs an eBay shop.
Also your SN1 frames, even with spacers, will hang down in the brood box leaving a void below for the bees to employ their artistic talents in random comb building.
Can I ask why you chose SN1 frames from the available possibilities?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Can I ask why you chose SN1 frames from the available possibilities?

I think she's just confused as to terminology (still) by what I could make out on another thread all her frames are Hoffmans thus either SN4 (Shallow National Hoffmans) in the super and DN4 (Deep National Hoffman's) in the brood. The nuc was supplied with DN1 frames (Deep National standard) so either need standard frame spacers or Hoffman converter spacers.

 

[BeeJayBee]

I will put some insulation in tomorrow, I'm sure there's some of that Celotex lying around.

The idea of keeping the whole brood box insulated around it is great, except that we have this lovely new cedar hive! Is there another way of keeping the brood box warmer, as well as insulating the roof?

Check out DerekM's photo album for pictures of hive cosies.
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=289

 

[SavvySalli]

"I think she's just confused as to terminology (still) by what I could make out on another thread all her frames are Hoffmans thus either SN4 (Shallow National Hoffmans) in the super and DN4 (Deep National Hoffman's) in the brood. The nuc was supplied with DN1 frames (Deep National standard) so either need standard frame spacers or Hoffman converter spacers."

You are absolutely right, I'm being completely dense! They are DN4s and the nuc came with DN1s! I'm SO sorry for confusing you all. I'll go back to beginner's beginnings! I knew exactly what I was doing when I bought it all and put the frames together, showing someone else how to do it and explaining the differences between them all! Blinking acronyms get me every time.

I'm picking up some coloured spacers in the morning so that I know the left from right, as I'm likely to get the turning routine the wrong way around, or back to front, or forget where I am in it while hunting for the Queen or checking for something or other.

I cut some insulation for the roof, only it's too thick! Luckily the builders buy more than they need so there's some slightly thinner stuff lying around too.

Have another question now but will ask it in the beginners questions section!

Going to look at DerekM's album for hive cosies.

Thank you all again, and sorry for my confusingness.