Good idea?

[iann41]

am I wasting my time. the frames are 14x12. on the bottom of the frame is 15lb fishing line. 1 frame has super foundation the other a 2" strip of foundation. only in brood box, not in supers, ...........yet.


ian

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[enrico]

Not if you have the time to waste! Don't understand why you wouldn't buy wired foundation but that's just me!

 

[jeff33]

or non wired if it bothers you. I have done something similar for my bait hives with old brood comb just leaving a strip at the top. Personally I have found it a pain when the frames are full of brood as it can easily snap when inspecting and you need to turn the frame differently to avoid snapping. I won't do it again.

 

[B+.]

Not if you have the time to waste! Don't understand why you wouldn't buy wired foundation but that's just me!

There are different ways to wire frames. Not just the vertical zig-zag that we are used to seeing here in the UK. Horizontal wiring is popular in some areas too.

 

[Finman]

am I wasting my time.]

Just inventing a wheel, and it is never wasting of time.
.

 

[Eyeman]

You are going to get drone comb drawn out on those 'foundationless' frames if you put them into an estabilshed colony at this time of year-Is that what you want?

 

[REDWOOD]

The fishing line is not a waste of time but I have only ever used it with full frame foundations, as others have said you will probably get some drone but that's not always a bad thing

 

[pargyle]

Foundationless frames has been a much discussed topic on here - look for Tom Bicks excellent thread on running foundationless frames. The usual suspects will be along shortly to give you all the old hack reasons why you should use foundation ... Me, I've always been foundationless in both brood boxes and supers. I use stainless wire (cheap as chips from China on ebay) and the bees happily build comb around it and I just put three horizontal wires in my 14 x 12 frames and I don't bother with wires in the supers.

My starter strips are just a triangular strip of timber under the top bar that I 'paint' with my own bees melted beeswax.

If it works for you try it ... works for me.

If the bees want to build drone comb I let them .. they seem to know more about what they want than I do.

 

[Curly green fingers]

You are going to get drone comb drawn out on those 'foundationless' frames if you put them into an estabilshed colony at this time of year-Is that what you want?

I was thinking the same it would be like adding a half frame. In the brood .

 

[pargyle]

I was thinking the same it would be like adding a half frame. In the brood .

No .. it doesn't work like that ... I get about 15-20% drone production for a period in late spring then it tends to tail off down to less than 10% and they convert the drone cells to brood box honey storage.

We really don't know what the dynamics of drones in bee colonies is .. the predilection of beekeepers to try and reduce the level of drones - some to the point of dragging out all drone comb - may be doing a gross disservice to our bee populations. The view that drones are a drain on the colony is unfounded nonsense - if the girls did not want them they would kick them out like they do every autumn.

 

[Beefriendly]

they convert the drone cells to brood box honey storage.

Your bees might do this, mine hate filling any drone cells, brood or supers.
I'm forever throwing away supers where they have drawn large areas of drone cells. They rarely fill them with honey even in the brood frames.

 

[Eyeman]

I was thinking the same it would be like adding a half frame. In the brood .

I work brood comb with high drone cell numbers to the edge of the box then remove when filled with honey or empty in spring.
I only use swarms to drawn foundationless as you get the best worker comb. Otherwise try getting it drawn later in the season- something I've not tried as I don't need extra comb later in the year.
This foundationless frame was put into a nuc around this time last year as it was the only one I had available- at least I may have removed some varroa?


It's perfectly possible to manage the bees so that drone comb production on foundationless frames is kept to a minimum. All the nucs I sell in spring come with the added bonus of a couple of well drawn foundationless frames- a good selling point. If your interested in just letting the bees 'get-on-with-it' then good luck to you!

 

[Eyeman]

Your bees might do this, mine hate filling any drone cells, brood or supers.
I'm forever throwing away supers where they have drawn large areas of drone cells. They rarely fill them with honey even in the brood frames.

Why do you think that is?
I've noticed mine do the same but there is often nectar in those drone cells but it's not capped- a shake suggests it's ripe!

 

[Beefriendly]

No conclusive idea, wish I had. It's just so consistent.
Only thing that comes to mind is perhaps the younger bees processing the nectar are programmed to use smaller cells or they are programmed to avoid using drone cells as they are important to colony survival.
I find they will eventually fill drone cells but only when there is no more room to store it...i.e beekeeper error (mine ). Just extracted a super with a rogue frame of total drone cells, every other frame was fully or mainly capped. Not even a drop of nectar in the drone frame...and it was towards the middle of the super.

 

[Hachi]

I've tried 10mm strips of foundation and cardboard with fishing line for ss wire. All methods worked well but its hassle when you need a 100 of them so I went back to foundation.

 

[Eyeman]

No conclusive idea, wish I had. It's just so consistent.
Only thing that comes to mind is perhaps the younger bees processing the nectar are programmed to use smaller cells or they are programmed to avoid using drone cells as they are important to colony survival.
I find they will eventually fill drone cells but only when there is no more room to store it...i.e beekeeper error (mine ). Just extracted a super with a rogue frame of total drone cells, every other frame was fully or mainly capped. Not even a drop of nectar in the drone frame...and it was towards the middle of the super.

You can buy drone foundation to go into supers- benefits suggested are less wax needed to draw the cells, more honey per super, and easier/quicker extraction time. Those running foundationless supers are going to get drone comb drawn. If the bees don't have a choice then there may not be a problem?
Dave Cushman mentions that it's the super just above the QE towards the middle that will not get the arc of drone cells filled with honey. He suggested try moving this super up one.

 

[Finman]

.
When you use worker foundations, you can use super frames as brood frames..
When you have too much honey in brood frames, lift those upstairs and let the brood emerge. Then extract the honey.

Foundationless combs are really expencive to maintain.

And stainless steel wire is very cheap. Cheaper than fishing line.

But ordinary beekeeping has no hype factor..

 

[philipm]

I did the exact same thing worked fine but I found that the bees chewed through the fishing line so I moved to stainless wire.The only thing I found was that to get the bees to draw the comb nice and straight was to make sure there was drawn comb either side.