Glass or Wooden Crown Boards ?

[Cars]

This is my first winter with Bees. When I closed them up for the winter in November, I changed the glass crown board for a wooden one. I thought that a wooden one would probably be warmer. As it is a new colony I am about to open the top, add an eke and then put in some fondant. I would appreciate any views on glass versus wooden as I would like to change back to the glass one to see what is going on, how quick they consume the fondant etc.

 

[Moggs]

Hi Cars - welcome.

What would you prefer on top of your house this winter - glass or wood? Leave the glass until the summer I say. And insulation is good too. By the way, what is the significance of a "new colony"? Did you go into winter with plenty of stores?

 

[MuswellMetro]

if you put 2" to 4" deep 46cm square of polystyrenes or kingspan insulation above it, then glass is ok because you get no condensation on the glass

Glass quilts are in my opinion things useful only in a training apiary, a bit of a novelty that after a few year wears off

 

[rich]

Hi Cars.
Its always been rightly said in the past, that a glass crown board will induce condensation in the winter, and this above the cluster is bad news, but if you are running a 50+mm insulation on top of the crown board with an OMF, (I mean open, not closed off) which a lot of people are doing theses days, I'm not so sure the glass crown board would present the same issues. I'm equally sure others will have a different view.
If it's checking on the fondant level you’re really after then you don't need the glass one anyway, as the fondant would be on top of the crown board, a quick and simple check can be made quite easily, which is all it should be in the winter months.

The main point to remember to do, once the fondant is on, is fill the empty space the eke has made above the hive with insulating material, otherwise you have a big void sucking away the clusters warmth.
All the best
Rich

 

[Cars]

Thanks Rich. I had understood that the fondant, and the eke went underneath the crown board, so that the fondant rests on top of the frames ?

 

[rich]

I've never gone that route. Just think of the extra area the bees have to keep warm. As Finman would say all "vain space" Just pop the fondant on top of the crown board, making sure you have cut a large enough hole in the plastic covering the fondant to fit over the holes in the crown board. Fill the space left with any insulating material, keep the bees warm; I've used old cushions in the past, but not fiberglass so I'm told.

That’s my way, but as you've no doubt already seen there’s loads of ways of achieving the same result, you have to pick out the way that suites you best, and seems the most logical way forward for you.

All the best Rich

 

[Mike a]

Welcome to the forums Cars

I would leave the wooden crown board as is and put the eke on top with the fondant over the hole of the crown board wrapped in cling film or greaseproof paper (Just remember to cut a hole in the wrapping at the last minute). The main reasons I would opt for this is as follows

1. If the bees are on top of the frames you would need to smoke them down between the frames before you could add the fondant. Not only will this take time but it will annoy the hell out of the colony.
2. The heat is kept confined under the crown board and causes minimal disturbance to the colony.
3. You can add a large lump of rolled out fondant under the roof and add more if required without needing to open the hive up completely to check if they need more if it was on the frames.
4. Putting the eke beneath the crown board will create a large void and by spring you could find a mass of brace comb on top of the frames.

Plus several more reasons which I can't think of right now as my dinner is getting cold...

 

[Cars]

Thanks, if the fondant covers the hole in the crown board, how do I achieve ventilation ?

 

[Hombre]

Fondant, if placed on the top bars and taken is fine, but if for some reason the bees largely ignore it, then it can flow like plastic between the top bars and is a pig to remove in the spring, particularly if you have a good sized apiary with a number of such cases. The girls get to express their displeasure.

Mike A might be back after dinner with more.

With an OMF, not closed up, the ventilation is from the bottom and is good to go. No top ventilation needed.

 

[Poly Hive]

Umm.......... OMF?

PH

 

[rich]

You don't especially if you’re on an OMF. Would you leave your house loft hatch open all winter?
If you put a mesh over you crown board holes, the bees soon propolis it up, don't you think there trying to tell us something?

Rich

 

[Hombre]

Cryptic as ever when the mood takes PH.

The advice is conditional and pertains to an OMF (Open Mesh Floor, Cars). If that's not so, then it doesn't apply.

I'm sure someone will be along with a couple of matchsticks in a moment or two. Possibly to light the smoker and support the mirrors. LoL

 

[clare p]

Hi I have perspex crown board on my WBC with a solid floor but as the weather turned bad and I was insulating them with Cellotex I noticed there was condensation on the inside, I have tilted the hives so that it can run forwards, but wished that I had wood (felt it too cold to switch back). They are now very well insulated and I peeked in and they are doing fine and the condensation is almost down to nothing.
Different story on my OMF National hive with perspex crown board, still very well insulated but no condensation to speak of.
I really am pleased that I am able to really quickly have a peek in (through the perspex) because I have been really worried for them and not completely sure they were doing ok (even though they have been bringing out their dead) but feeling very reassured now I have seen them busy under the fondant.
But really I wished that I didn't worry and had a wood crown board on top.
But that is for next winter. Wooden crown boards, insulation and all OMF'd
Clare

 

[MuswellMetro]

Thanks, if the fondant covers the hole in the crown board, how do I achieve ventilation ?

if you have an open OMF or OMF with the board at least a 1/3 out you dont need extra ventalation


if solid floor or omf with board fully in there is always the match stick trick, but i do not like that method, i use hot insulated top, cold open OMF bottom with blocked crown board, to me it is a feed hole not a hole for ventalation


what floor configuration have you, also when do you block your crown board off

 

[Poly Hive]

Thanks, if the fondant covers the hole in the crown board, how do I achieve ventilation ?

Answer... Umm OMF?


That is a straight answer to a straight question.

Cryptic enough for you Hombre?

Personally I thought it pretty clear but I dinna do crosswords. I just answer questions with the best answers I can come up with.


PH

 

[Poly Hive]

I suspect the mian problem is that some are now using the better floor and some are not due to oldfashioned catalogues and or old fashioned advice from the well meaning.

Question for you all.

When did ventilated floors appear in the UK?

PH

 

[Mike a]

Question for you all.

When did ventilated floors appear in the UK?

PH

About the time skeps were first used in the UK... mediaeval?

 

[Hombre]

I take your point PH. Just when you tagged the ? on the end it didn't seem to be quite an answer that you intended.

I guess that for some of us, OMFs are fairly standard as that is what we have been brought up with as a recommendation over the last couple of years. It's a bit of a no brainer, because we probably don't really know a lot different, but for those that have been using solid floors for long enough the thinking is possibly quite different, for some it is aking to a sea change.

Question: I was intreagued with the deep floors used under the poly hives in the IWF.de movies featuring "Swienty Girl". Do you know where there are any details at all? I use a Kewel derived floor, but am interested in seeing how they are constructed. I notice that there was a removable panel/screen and a back and front door for transit, feeding etc. When she put the washing up bowl in the back, I thought that they were expected to do the dishes LoL.

Please forgive me techiness earlier.

 

[Heather]

I've never gone that route. Just think of the extra area the bees have to keep warm. As Finman would say all "vain space" Just pop the fondant on top of the crown board, making sure you have cut a large enough hole in the plastic covering the fondant to fit over the holes in the crown board. Fill the space left with any insulating material, keep the bees warm; I've used old cushions in the past, but not fiberglass so I'm told.

That’s my way, but as you've no doubt already seen there’s loads of ways of achieving the same result, you have to pick out the way that suites you best, and seems the most logical way forward for you.

All the best Rich

Not fiberglass?? I have used roof insulation inside polythene bin bags. Surely thats ok?

 

[MuswellMetro]

I use a Kewel derived floor,

i like the kewel entrance as they are mouse proof and deter wasps, though some say they block with dead bees in winter, i have two myself of the Edinburgh bee-keepers Ass design modified with 20 mm extra bee space above the mesh because the EBKA has only a 2-4mm space above the mesh and i am use to manipulating hives with 20-30mm above the floor