Getting Bees into Supers

[BMH]

Reading through the thread I was tempted to post something constructive but the above is just bs willy waving, why have 4 supers of foundation on if they're not drawing the first?!!
Try extracting some of the deep frames and giving them back drawn spun out comb in the second brood box.

How is it willy waving?

I have nowhere to store my supers, so I store them on my hive with boards in between to limit access.

In this case, I've removed the boards because I was worried they might fill up a single super very quickly, what with being on double brood I'm a very heavy flow.

Jeez. if 4 supers is willy waving then god help us!

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[BMH]

Some clues so far(posted) in using drawn - extracted 0r n0t - yet n0ne quite

reaching the method for you, eh? I'm pretty sure I 've posted the method with

sketches here before today - so there is that avenue, and g00gle - as the

method is universal, well documented. Merely lost to this corner of the globe,

seemingly.

0r you could tell us how all those other colonies got to have drawn supers?

The new players reading along may well learn something.

I do note the honeybadger had to sacrifice the use of lollywater. - yet again.

Some just carn't do a thing around bees without that "spoonfull of sugar". Heh



/pops 2 of Fe tabs/



Bill

The other colonies got drawn supers by placing a super of foundation on top of a strong colony with a queen excluder in a heavy flow.

Exactly what I am doing here, but it's not working this time around.

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[BMH]

.

The colony is too small to occupy all those boxes. And the heat escapes from the nest upstairs.



With 50 hives you surely know, what is the case.



.

The colonies are bursting at the seams in the double brood, over 16-18 frames of brood.

It's only in the last 2 weeks that I've removed all separation boards. Before that, it was only the first super they had access to (with foundation).

I removed them, as I feared they may draw and fill a super within a week and then run of space and swarm.

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[Finman]

.
Strange.

One thing is that if the colony prepare for swarming, it does not draw combs.

What if you do an artificial swarm on those Foundations, so they should start to draw combs inside 3 days.

 

[BMH]

What I'm putting it down to is the 6 weeks spell of consistent rain.

The colonies are on 16-18 frames of brood, which is mostly sealed, so hopefully are about to burst into life in the next couple of weeks and break into the next super. They took a hefty knock back from the poor weather.

What's confusing me is that when that has happened on others, they tried to swarm as opposed to drawing the foundation and moving upwards.

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[BMH]

.
Strange.

One Thang is that if the colony esitä för dwarming, it edes not eräs combs.

What if you fi an artificial swarm on those Foundationin, they should start to draw combs inside 3 days.

I was considering something like this but more a form of demaree.

Split the brood nest, top and bottom with 2 supers of drawn foundation in between and an upper entrance. Queen remains below.

This would bleed flyers back to the bottom box, overcrowd it and hopefully force them up into the supers

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[Murox]

The colonies are bursting at the seams in the double brood, over 16-18 frames of brood.
It's only in the last 2 weeks that I've removed all separation boards. Before that, it was only the first super they had access to (with foundation).
I removed them, as I feared they may draw and fill a super within a week and then run of space and swarm.

You said they are preparing to swarm earlier - you could create an artificial swarm to try an give yourself some control over events.

Can you remove/extract/ freeze some honey bound brood frames to create space in the Brood box(s).
You could allow them access to one super, so QE moved up. ( or nadir) and or manipulate and condense brood down to 1 brood box and keep the second brood box on with some space for HM to lay.

 

[BMH]

You said they are preparing to swarm earlier - you could create an artificial swarm to try an give yourself some control over events.

Can you remove/extract/ freeze some honey bound brood frames to create space in the Brood box(s).
You could allow them access to one super, so QE moved up. ( or nadir) and or manipulate and condense brood down to 1 brood box and keep the second brood box on with some space for HM to lay.

These are the options I've identified.

I guess it's best to try a mixture of these approaches and see what one works the best.



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[BeeJohn]

Bees are not keen on making all the effort of going through a QX just to find undrawn foundation. Remove the QX and let them start drawing out the foundation, which they will do. Then after a few days put the QX back on an they will be fine and continue using the super. Just make sure the queen is down in the brood box before you finally put the QX back on. Good luck.

 

[BMH]

Bees are not keen on making all the effort of going through a QX just to find undrawn foundation. Remove the QX and let them start drawing out the foundation, which they will do. Then after a few days put the QX back on an they will be fine and continue using the super. Just make sure the queen is down in the brood box before you finally put the QX back on. Good luck.

Yes. I think that's the most sensible solution for these colonies.

I'll get them out next week on my visits.

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[Murox]

Good luck, its a shame you got caught out with so much undrawn comb. I only ever had one full super of foundation on a hive at any one time.

 

[BMH]

Yeah it's a pain but theyve only had access to 4 supers from a couple of weeks ago..before that it was only 1, with a board restricting access to the ones above it.

fingers crossed the flow continues and they get some of it drawn and filled

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[eltalia]

The other colonies got drawn supers by placing a super of foundation on top of a strong colony with a queen excluder in a heavy flow.

Thanks for the update

Exactly what I am doing here, but it's not working this time around.

Weeell it cannot be "exactly" ... eh?

Bill

 

[BMH]

Well, it is...

Exactly the same.

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[Finman]

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6 Weeks rain. No wonder that they .do not draw combs.

 

[BMH]

.
6 Weeks rain. No wonder that they .do not draw combs.

Yes. It's clearly why I am having issues.

The brood nest contracted so far and is only now getting back up to speed.

But what's strange is the swarming.

I think my bees are just not inclined to go through the excluder so will remove them and hopefully that will resolve the issue

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[Newbeeneil]

Yes. It's clearly why I am having issues.


I think my bees are just not inclined to go through the excluder so will remove them and hopefully that will resolve the issue

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That's what I did it 3 of my hives this year. Within 2 days they were drawing comb on the new foundation then I put the QX back.

 

[Millet]

I know BF mentioned it but have you checked all the spacing in the excluder...I binned an excluder three years ago as the spacing was all different some of which had big amounts of dead workers stuck in between the wires..other than that episode I have never had a problem with bees passing through.

 

[SDM]

Yes. It's clearly why I am having issues.

The brood nest contracted so far and is only now getting back up to speed.

But what's strange is the swarming.

I think my bees are just not inclined to go through the excluder so will remove them and hopefully that will resolve the issue

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The swarming is not so strange when you consider how long they've been confined.
I think Finman had it right several posts ago, that you just don't have enough bees. Just up the road from you many of mine are in a similar position. 3 weeks ago just 8 or 9 frames of brood, sure they're 16-18 frames of brood now but none of that brood is out foraging yet. Hives like that are going to have missed out on at least the first half of the main flow. Fortunately it seems to be quite a long flow there's 3 or 4 weeks left in it thanks to the quantities of rain we've had. Hives in that condition will catch the end of the main flow and be in great shape for Heather but you've been expecting too much from the limited numbers of older foragers in the hive.
Quantities of undrawn supers is a pain when you increase year on year( or crush and strain in good heather years). Best bet is to spread your drawn( wet stored) comb out amongst your boxes next spring . That way they'll be up into those supers like rats up a drain pipe. There's probably no more than 5 undrawn frames from the 90 new super boxes I added this year doing it this way.

 

[BMH]

The swarming is not so strange when you consider how long they've been confined.
I think Finman had it right several posts ago, that you just don't have enough bees. Just up the road from you many of mine are in a similar position. 3 weeks ago just 8 or 9 frames of brood, sure they're 16-18 frames of brood now but none of that brood is out foraging yet. Hives like that are going to have missed out on at least the first half of the main flow. Fortunately it seems to be quite a long flow there's 3 or 4 weeks left in it thanks to the quantities of rain we've had. Hives in that condition will catch the end of the main flow and be in great shape for Heather but you've been expecting too much from the limited numbers of older foragers in the hive.
Quantities of undrawn supers is a pain when you increase year on year( or crush and strain in good heather years). Best bet is to spread your drawn( wet stored) comb out amongst your boxes next spring . That way they'll be up into those supers like rats up a drain pipe. There's probably no more than 5 undrawn frames from the 90 new super boxes I added this year doing it this way.

I think you are right.

There is lots and lots of sealed brood over 16-18 frames but a dis-proportionally low amount of bees to get into the supers. Once all this brood emerges they will be up there drawing the frames (like they are in some colonies).

I suspect those colonies are just a bit far advanced and have the surplus bees to enable the expansion.

And the swarming is just a result of swarmy colonies and the length of confinement i.e. they would have swarmed earlier but got knocked back so far, so are having a bash at it now.

In terms of colonies for the heather, they are going to be roaring at the right time but I am reluctant to send all the supers up there as they will be need to be pressed (if filled) and then I will lose all my combs anyway.

Considering a punt on a loosener on 12 month 0% APR as it could be an incredible year at the heather if the weather is right. Colonies bursting, wet grounds, chance of some sunshine.