From poly to wood hive?

[user 20297]

....... I’m also unhappy about environmental footprint of using poly.

As the poly in question is already made and it seems that it was originally bought by someone else, by keeping it in use I think you're doing the environmentally correct thing.

 

[Moobee]

Lots to think about...., I’m paying for the hive and colony so it’s not free (but I’m wondering what price 2nd hand ones go for on eBay as it’s only a couple of years old and looks in good condition from the photos). All my other kit is wood and it seems to be not very compatible with this particular hive so ide probably need to buy more bits (environmental issue). It also hasn’t been painted. OA vaping could be a bit hazardous
And it will be in my garden so aesthetically not great.
However, some great advice here so I’m not going to discount it immediately.
I’m inspecting the bees this morning to make sure they are ok. There are 3 colonies - my mentor is having two of them as she lost hers over the winter. But apparently when I spoke to the guy yesterday, one has already swarmed (capped QC inside)!!!!

 

[oliver90owner]

I’m also unhappy about environmental footprint of using poly.

My poly hives will last over 30 years - easily, IMO. They will be fully recyclable at the end of life.

I still use some timber floors and supers - and at times timber roofs (with polystyrene insulation, of course).

Your choice but the environmental footprint is just an easy cop-out for people who don’t check out the advantages and the real costs over the hive lifetime. Most of my hives were all timber - because I could make them, but not bought any more timber since trying poly.

 

[Moobee]

Well it’s all now a moot point as I went to inspect the bees today. I should have figured all wasn’t good when bees were pinging off my veil before I managed to do the zip up. Quite a distance from the hives....
The beek admitted one hive had a capped QC so assuming they had probably swarmed, I declined his offer to take a look in case we spooked a virgin.
The second hive was incredibly feisty and when we opened up...... no sign of eggs or uncapped brood. And no sign of a queen, no wonder they were cross.
The third hive was fine but he will only sell them all together and is adamant they will be queen right in two weeks. I was rather unimpressed to schlep across the county to find this out and I’m not happy to take all three in that state so I have said thanks but no thanks.

 

[bingevader]

I’m also unhappy about environmental footprint of using poly.

My poly hives will last over 30 years - easily, IMO. They will be fully recyclable at the end of life.

Do you have any evidence for this?
We have two poly nucs that I am having to repair because they can't be recycled here and the bees have been chewing great holes in them.
I read recently about polystyrene adding to the microparticle problem and another research paper that is looking into the specific problems they might cause for bees.
Interesting, when my 1" thick local sustainable wooden warre hives have zero environmental impact.

 

[hemo]

Interesting, when my 1" thick local sustainable wooden warre hives have zero environmental impact.

They already will have impacted on the environment, in their felling and transportation then the energy needed to cut/saw them up.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Do you have any evidence for this?

Poly kit has been in use in Europe for about 40 years: ask Finman.

Poly can be recycled: ask Molygran.

Beekeepers seal the outside of boxes (oil-based better than masonry paint); bees seal the interior (propolis), so nano-particles are locked in.

Thermal efficiency of poly is far greater, so using it is more fuel-efficient for bees and as it's lighter, moving it is more fuel-efficient for beekeepers.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I’m not happy to take all three in that state so I have said thanks but no thanks.

Good call...I wonder at some folk sometimes

 

[Erichalfbee]

Poly kit has been in use in Europe for about 40 years: ask Finman.

Poly can be recycled: ask Molygran.

Beekeepers seal the outside of boxes (oil-based better than masonry paint); bees seal the interior (propolis), so nano-particles are locked in.

Thermal efficiency of poly is far greater, so using it is more fuel-efficient for bees and as it's lighter, moving it is more fuel-efficient for beekeepers.

I must remember Molygran for future discussions...thanks Eric

 

[Antipodes]

Poly kit has been in use in Europe for about 40 years: ask Finman

Yeah, but not by beekeepers in the 7960 years before that...

 

[Levitt53]

No I haven’t as I’m still a novice but having invested in wood nationals, I’m loath to buy more kit (& I think OH would be a bit unimpressed!). I’m also unhappy about environmental footprint of using poly.

You don't need to buy more kit if the poly hive you are getting is complete. It's more of an environmental issue if you don't use the poly hive and you might be surprised. I use poly's but have a few wooden ones. I've put wooden supers on a poly hive or use wooden brood boxes on top for double brood. Don't mix during the winter obviously but in summer it's fine.

 

[North End Bees]

BMH does a good review of poly vs wood hives.
I think he said he was going to recycle his polys at the end of their life by cutting them into tiles to insulate the bee shed!

 

[Fiona in South View]

I have a poly hive which I love especially in damp conditions, but the faff in cleaning has put me off. So much easier to grab a blow torch and quickly cleanse whatever. I suppose if I was ultra good and managed to get all my equipment cleaned over the winter months it would help. Reading these responses I am now wondering whether I should do poly brood with wood supers. I know that wood supers can fit on poly hives, but there is a lip as the poly is thicker. Does anyone have problems with rain collecting on the lip and getting into the hive?

 

[oliver90owner]

We have two poly nucs that I am having to repair because they can't be recycled here and the bees have been chewing great holes in them.

I expect this is yet another instance of the buyer not being aware of the requirements and the seller marketing sub-standard kit? Happens allover the world, these days. I have power tools and always check out the specifications very carefully. I discard any from my selection choices if the supplier does not answer truthfully and readily. The un-knowing are often/easily conned.

I suggest you actually check the density of the poly before you buy. I always check if the value is not quoted and would not buy if less than 100kg per cubic metre. I have also checked that what I had received is what I paid for. Do/did you? I somehow doubt it.

Some of my poly is likely over 15 years old already. No sign of degradation and most certainly not chewed.

 

[pargyle]

I was rather unimpressed to schlep across the county to find this out and I’m not happy to take all three in that state so I have said thanks but no thanks.

I think, in your situation, I would have walked away as well.

Depending on the price for the lot and if you had an out apiary where the agressive traits could be dealt with and sufficient kit to do it (splitting down to Nucs, re-queening with known good stock) there could have been a deal to be done ... potentially there is 6 colonies there and a value of at least £300 each + kit once requeened and established.

Depends what the seller was asking for them. there are not a lot of full colonies for sale with proven queens at present and there is a demand ...

Someone will buy them but if they know what they are doing then they will be looking for a discount to accommdate the attention they will need.

 

[Boston Bees]

They already will have impacted on the environment, in their felling and transportation then the energy needed to cut/saw them up.

Especially as shipped from North America possibly...

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have a poly hive which I love especially in damp conditions, but the faff in cleaning has put me off.

No faff
Boxes don’t need cleaning. They need sterilising if there has been disease
The bees put a lot of energy into lining their home with propolis.
Just scrape odd bit that gets in the way gently with a hive tool

 

[hemo]

Gently warm the any propolis lumps and with a broad blade scraper spread it over the inside, wood only.

 

[Moobee]

I think, in your situation, I would have walked away as well.

Depending on the price for the lot and if you had an out apiary where the agressive traits could be dealt with and sufficient kit to do it (splitting down to Nucs, re-queening with known good stock) there could have been a deal to be done ... potentially there is 6 colonies there and a value of at least £300 each + kit once requeened and established.

Depends what the seller was asking for them. there are not a lot of full colonies for sale with proven queens at present and there is a demand ...

Someone will buy them but if they know what they are doing then they will be looking for a discount to accommdate the attention they will need.

It did occur to me but I don’t have an out apiary and was only looking to increase my colonies and help my mentor out who lost hers in the winter. I was mostly annoyed (after wading through chest high nettles and being pinged and chased by angry bees!) to be told three good hives of bees with BIAS to then find only one was queenright. He’s not up for negotiating, wants to sell all three together and claims he will be queen right in two weeks. I think I’m going to take my one strong hive and make up a nuc with a locally purchased queen TBH

 

[pargyle]

It did occur to me but I don’t have an out apiary and was only looking to increase my colonies and help my mentor out who lost hers in the winter. I was mostly annoyed (after wading through chest high nettles and being pinged and chased by angry bees!) to be told three good hives of bees with BIAS to then find only one was queenright. He’s not up for negotiating, wants to sell all three together and claims he will be queen right in two weeks. I think I’m going to take my one strong hive and make up a nuc with a locally purchased queen TBH

With colonies that are already agressive and pinging at that distance even if he has QC's that will produce queens that are going to be open mated there are still the genetics there and there's every likelihood that the agressive traits will be maintained. No responsible beekeeper should ever be selling agressive colonies ... certainly not at full price. Sounds like he's on the less respectable fringe of beekeeping. Did he give you a reason he was selling them ? From the sounds of it they have not been well inspected in recent weeks which does not bode well ....