Swapping from warm way to cold way

[Do224]

Just moved a hive to a new location and would prefer to inspect from the side rather than the back going forward. Can I just swap them or is it a bad idea? They’re just in a single brood box with a shallow on top that they haven’t drawn out yet.

I’m wondering if I do this will it set them back much? I’m guessing they’ll have a bit of reorganising to do…

As an aside I’m also curious if the move to a new location is likely to set them back much if at all? I’m assuming it’ll take them a while to find the best forage…

 

[ericbeaumont]

Can I just swap them

Yes.

will it set them back much?

No.

 

[Erichalfbee]

They’re just in a single brood box with a shallow on top that they haven’t drawn out yet.

Do they need it?

 

[Do224]

Do they need it?

Well they’ve filled the brood box so I thought I better give them the option of another box as I’d rather they didn’t swarm…nothing lost in doing this at this time of year is there? I thought too much space was only an issue when it’s still cool in the spring…

 

[Erichalfbee]

If there is no income the bees won't draw the frames
Down here in mid Wales the flow has stopped and the nests are contracting

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Can I just swap them

yes

I’m wondering if I do this will it set them back much?

No

I’m also curious if the move to a new location is likely to set them back much if at all? I’m assuming it’ll take them a while to find the best forage…

No - it will take the scouts only a few hours to get to know the area and find any forage.

If there is no income the bees won't draw the frames
Down here in mid Wales the flow has stopped and the nests are contracting

As Dani - if there's not much out there, they won't bring much in so they won't bother drawing much comb, of course, you don't say whether there's any heather in the vicinity

 

[Do224]

yes

No

No - it will take the scouts only a few hours to get to know the area and find any forage.

As Dani - if there's not much out there, they won't bring much in so they won't bother drawing much comb, of course, you don't say whether there's any heather in the vicinity

Nearest heather would be about 6 miles I think so too far.

This is a swarm from back in May so I have been holding out a bit of hope that they might get into the super before the end of the season…

 

[Erichalfbee]

You might have balsam where you are if there are not lots of offcomers. When I lived near Kendal they used to organise balsam parties and there was never any left
What does the brood box look like?

 

[Do224]

You might have balsam where you are. Friends if there are lots of offcomers. When I lived near Kendal they used to organise balsam parties and there was never any left
What does the brood box look like?

I’ve read and re-read this and I’m totally confused about what you mean, sorry . Please explain…(there is plenty balsam about, yes…there’s a river just under a mile away. I can see white pollen going in but no ghost bees yet so not sure if they’re foraging balsam or perhaps clover?)

The brood box was about 7 frames of brood when I checked about 2 weeks ago and put the super on…haven’t looked in since other than through the clear crown board to see that they’re not drawing the super yet

 

[user 20297]

I’ve read and re-read this and I’m totally confused about what you mean, sorry . Please explain…(there is plenty balsam about, yes…there’s a river just under a mile away. I can see white pollen going in but no ghost bees yet so not sure if they’re foraging balsam or perhaps clover?)

The brood box was about 7 frames of brood when I checked about 2 weeks ago and put the super on…haven’t looked in since other than through the clear crown board to see that they’re not drawing the super yet

I would think that at this time of year your bees will find plenty of forage anywhere in Cumbria. That will include heather and Himalayan balsam and there should also be swathes of rosebay willowherb.

I have a couple of small swarms in full-sized boxes that don't yet need any additional room above. If the bottom box is fully occupied, have you considered dummying the upper box down to maybe half the frames and those to be above the main brood? I can understand why you would want to have a bit of "insurance" space above. (Edit) Just noticed your brood box isn't full, so the insurance maybe isn't needed.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I’ve read and re-read this and I’m totally confused about what you mean, sorry . Please explain…(there is plenty balsam about, yes…there’s a river just under a mile away. I can see white pollen going in but no ghost bees yet so not sure if they’re foraging balsam or perhaps clover?)

The brood box was about 7 frames of brood when I checked about 2 weeks ago and put the super on…haven’t looked in since other than through the clear crown board to see that they’re not drawing the super yet

Sorry. Typos galore. Have corrected it

 

[Erichalfbee]

The brood box was about 7 frames of brood when I checked about 2 weeks ago and put the super on…haven’t looked in since other than through the clear crown board to see that they’re not drawing the super yet

Then they might bring some in or they might put it into the brood box for winter

 

[ericbeaumont]

put it into the brood box for winter

Far better choice than to try and get bees to use income to draw a super of foundation at the fag end of a flow.

they’re not drawing the super yet

They won't, not unless there's a strong flow within 2 miles.

To get the best from bees you must not only observe & understand the colony, but learn to use the hive in a flexible and timely way. The third element of beekeeping is the environment in which you and the bees live.

As has been said, colonies are contracting & flows are on the way out, so unless you know the forage in your area, I suggest you let further income go into the BB.

This is a swarm from back in May

better give them the option of another box as I’d rather they didn’t swarm…nothing lost in doing this at this time of year is there?

The likelihood of a swarm swarming again in a season is so out of the ordinary that you may as well forget it. On the other hand, if it arrived in May with an old queen, supersedure is quite likely.

Of course, if you check irregularly you won't know what's going on, so I would encourage you to get into a routine of checking every 7 days without fail.

In this way you will begin to understand how a colony works and how you can work with it. At the moment, you are going by the book and expecting the colony to perform.

By the way, which beginner beekeeping book do you have?

 

[Do224]

The likelihood of a swarm swarming again in a season is so out of the ordinary that you may as well forget it.

I’ve had May caught swarms swarm again both last year and the year before so I’m more cautious about adding extra space early now

Of course, if you check irregularly you won't know what's going on, so I would encourage you to get into a routine of checking every 7 days without fail.

I was checking every 7 days but got the impression from posts on the forum that the majority of people seem to cease inspecting their brood boxes from early July…

In this way you will begin to understand how a colony works and how you can work with it. At the moment, you are going by the book and expecting the colony to perform.

Just doing the best I can with the knowledge I have

By the way, which beginner beekeeping book do you have?

It’s a long time since I read a beekeeping book, I find this forum far more useful…

 

[ericbeaumont]

more cautious about adding extra space

No harm in that during warm weather.

checking every 7 days but got the impression ... the majority of people seem to cease inspecting their brood boxes from early July…

Yes, but that depends on beekeeper experience, reading of colonies and available forage.

The chance for beginners to practice is limited, so you're better off making the most of any opportunity for regular 7-day checks for the 5 essentials, which will help to embed that practice for the busy part of next season.

long time since I read a beekeeping book

This one is the best and at £12 is worth the trouble.

https://www.books4people.co.uk/prod...QUOfpXHdzKUyc8ZWDSDTqLrchqm-ohToaAhkOEALw_wcB

 

[Do224]

Yes, but that depends on beekeeper experience, reading of colonies and available forage.

You can say that again. I just inspected the brood box to find almost zero stores…the two outside frames on each side have been stripped bare and there’s barely any stores left in the brood nest either. I’ve just taken a full frame of stores out of the freezer to give them tomorrow after it’s thawed. Do you think I should feed them as well?

Hoping this beekeeping thing will start to get a bit easier soon!

I have another May caught swarm that I just inspected and is in almost the same condition. Both of these swarms were given two full frames of honey each when I first caught them but not fed.

My other two colonies each have a super of honey on so confident they won’t be starving (I checked through the clear crown board to see plenty of honey still in the super of each)

 

[ericbeaumont]

should feed them as well?

Yardstick is that two full DN frames of stores is enough for 7 days, supposing bees could not fly to forage.

That is about 8-10lbs, or 2.6-4.5 kg, so tot up the bits and pieces on frames and have a guesstimate.

If they don't have that you may have to feed, which suggests that forage in your area has been poor, as swarms usually work far faster than regulars in honey production.

Beware feeding syrup: wasps and robbers will pick up on the slightest whiff and be in. Add syrup about 6-7pm when all is quiet. Consider fondant: a block on top bars with an eke.

checked through the clear crown board to see plenty of honey

Nothing beats opening up and checking the frames. Maybe the tops have stores, but 80% could be dry.

I say it again: check in the boxes every 7 days.

 

[Do224]

Beware feeding syrup: wasps and robbers will pick up on the slightest whiff and be in. Add syrup about 6-7pm when all is quiet. Consider fondant: a block on top bars with an eke.

I put the frames of stores in late yesterday. The bees must have been starving as there are loads of cappings under the hive this morning having dropped through the mesh floor ….the wasps are going mad for them! Cleaned them up as best I could but still lots of wasps around…wish I’d fed syrup now, at least it would be enclosed within the hive

 

[ericbeaumont]

wasps are going mad for them

Make sure the hive entrance is reduced to one or two bee spaces.

You didn't mention the super. It is off, isn't it?

 

[Do224]

Make sure the hive entrance is reduced to one or two bee spaces.

You didn't mention the super. It is off, isn't it?

Yes I reduced the entrance right down and removed the super. So far the wasps aren’t bothering the entrance…just mopping up under the hive