Frames without foundation

[user 20297]

doesn't always work like that, I find the majority of my brood frames end up with the bees nibbling away the foundation from the bottom bars and much of the sidebars, in fact, today I found one frame with the wax nibbled away all the way around - even from the top bar, it was just held within the frame by the wires and a little bit of foundation at the sides

All my frames are less than two years old, so I'm seeing the difference. Time will tell.

 

[robmort]

Yes the majority of my 14x12 brood frames end up the same, with the bees making a bee space around the bottom and sides, whether they were with foundation or foundationless.
I will use stainless wire in future as the bees chew through thick nylon fishing line so it ends up without any support, though this isn't a problem.

 

[JamezF]

I will use stainless wire in future as the bees chew through thick nylon fishing line so it ends up without any support, though this isn't a problem.

And there I was, about to order a load more fishing line because I'd worked out that I don't have enough. What strength line were you using?

James

 

[rook66]

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View attachment 30146
The wire is a single strand that goes through eyelets on the side bars and round a nail in the top bar - I use small screws to secure the ends so easy to tighten or replace

Nice photo, It looks like the Wally Shaw theory, that the bees use the hanging chain theory when building natural comb.

 

[Boston Bees]

I will use stainless wire in future as the bees chew through thick nylon fishing line so it ends up without any support, though this isn't a problem.

Only my first year using fishing line, but I haven't found this yet - interesting. Maybe some bees just take a dislike to the stuff.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes the majority of my 14x12 brood frames end up the same, with the bees making a bee space around the bottom and sides, whether they were with foundation or foundationless.
I will use stainless wire in future as the bees chew through thick nylon fishing line so it ends up without any support, though this isn't a problem.

In 10 years of using them I've never seen that. I did find one wired frame chewed about all over the place. We are at the end of a real June gap with few stores and I presumed the bees had just used the wax elsewhere

 

[robmort]

And there I was, about to order a load more fishing line because I'd worked out that I don't have enough. What strength line were you using?

James

It was 50lb line, the thickest

 

[Murox]

I use both stainless steel wire and fishing line (20lb 'cos that's what was lying around) in what amounts to dadant sized brood frames. I have not noticed any differences in the way bees draw or use the frames and have never encountered bees chewing through the fishing line. I do use eyelets for the stainless wire and fishing line and use a pin at each end, much simpler to anchor to than fiddling about with knots or very small diameter holes through the frame. As pointed out it costs a lot of honey/energy to draw /create wax so I only give new foundationless brood frames after any honey has been taken and then feed heavily to ensure they can draw out enough easily before winter, fits well with my autumn regime anyway. As I want a honey crop (ok its often small where I am) I do use thin unwired foundation in any supers and have a decided preference for Manley frames, gives any easy option to also provide some comb honey and makes uncapping painless.
I do sometimes take an older brood frame full of honey out but that will be 'crush and strain' and frankly its a pain in the proverbial but at least I have a really warm (easily gets to 30 degrees on sunny days) conservatory in which to let it drain and drip through filters.
I also run a couple of conventional 14x12 and find the bees create as many holes and nibbled sections as they do with their own designs in the foundationless, it might just take a year before they modify the foundationlees ones to suit their current needs, then again the same seems to be true for the wired brood foundation.

 

[robbohenn]

I took my wbc to France with foundation filled frames (some drawn) and was really surprised to find that most frames here are dadant (so don't fit my supers!) and are just wired. Are french bees faster/better builder's than UK ones?

 

[Murox]

I took my wbc to France with foundation filled frames (some drawn) and was really surprised to find that most frames here are dadant (so don't fit my supers!) and are just wired. Are french bees faster/better builder's than UK ones?

Brittany has better forage generally.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I took my wbc to France with foundation filled frames (some drawn) and was really surprised to find that most frames here are dadant

well the national hive is a British 'standard' noone else in the world bothers with it, so you shouldn't have been that surprised

 

[Mint Bee]

It was 50lb line, the thickest

old 25 lb nylon or 30lb braided line works for me, but that because its what I had and thought I would reuse it for frames a couple of years ago. Both have been drawn out. Nylon doesn't like the steamer if you recover wax direct from frames. Braided line seams OK

 

[blackcloud]

You could use lolly sticks coated in wax or 1 inch strips of foundation and the bamboo skewers are used to strengthen the frame. You can use drawn comb around the foundationless frames or have the hive perfectly level and let the bees draw out the comb.

I saw up offcuts to make starter strips-proven to be clumsy idiot proof.
Bees love them.