Frame nails or staples? And splitting of side bars.

[SonorousSuze]

Hi,

Hope this isn't a dumb beginner question.

I'm putting frames together, and I was wondering am I able to use 12/14mm staples to fasten everything together, or is there an absolute reason I need to use frame nails?

And, how do I prevent the bottom bars from splitting the side bars? Do I have to shave off a small amount from every bottom bar to get them to fit the side bars? Seems like a lot of faff only put two together so far and both sets of bottom bars were such a tight fit that it's split the side bar.

Thanks all!

 

[REDWOOD]

Staples are a no no, use gimp pins or a nail gun with 16mm brads, never had wood splitting with gimp pins but if it's happening to you turn the nail upside down and hit the sharp end with a hammer to blunt it.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Hi,

Hope this isn't a dumb beginner question.

I'm putting frames together, and I was wondering am I able to use 12/14mm staples to fasten everything together, or is there an absolute reason I need to use frame nails?

And, how do I prevent the bottom bars from splitting the side bars? Do I have to shave off a small amount from every bottom bar to get them to fit the side bars? Seems like a lot of faff only put two together so far and both sets of bottom bars were such a tight fit that it's split the side bar.

Thanks all!

never had more than a few per thousand of the bottom bar split the side bars, sometimes a tight fit but a light tap and no problem///and i have made thousands as it use to be my holiday job as a student for a reseach station

 

[yeogi75]

the bottom bars are tight but not that they split the side bars, give a ring to where you purchased them from, if they are spliting before you try to nail them then they are not for purpose, hope that helps

 

[Barbarian]

2 Tips

To help stop the top of the side bar from splitting, soak the top inch of the side bar in water for a couple of minutes before assembly.

If the bottom bar is a very tight into the side bar, try gently squeezing the end of the bottom bar with pliers before assembly.

Hope these help.

 

[yeogi75]

or slightly tap bottom bars with hammer to bruise ends

 

[SonorousSuze]

2 Tips

To help stop the top of the side bar from splitting, soak the top inch of the side bar in water for a couple of minutes before assembly.

If the bottom bar is a very tight into the side bar, try gently squeezing the end of the bottom bar with pliers before assembly.

Hope these help.

That helps, thank you! I'll try both of those

Bought from a well known supplier that I will try and avoid using again simply because of my so far bad experiences. Really can not face the wrath of their director by daring to complain again.

 

[Dishmop]

Before knocking the bottom bars in I scamfer the corners off the bar where it is going to fit in the slot. Sandpaper. Brick wall. Concrete, because you can never find the bright yellow or orange Stanley knives you bought.

 

[enrico]

Always pin the bottom bars from the bottom, not from the sides, then they can be removed easily for cleaning and putting in new foundation, also helps stop splitting.

 

[Russel]

or slightly tap bottom bars with hammer to bruise ends

A gentle tap or three to the side(s) of the bottom bars should squish them just enough, soaking tends to swell wood and pliers, stanley's etc are another tool in the process.

 

[itma]

Hope this isn't a dumb beginner question.

I wonder if the side bars were being split by the bottom bars being put in the wrong way round?
In cross-section they are not square ...

 

[Ross]

Staples are a no no, use gimp pins or a nail gun with 16mm brads, never had wood splitting with gimp pins but if it's happening to you turn the nail upside down and hit the sharp end with a hammer to blunt it.

Why are staples a no no?

They are easy to use with a gun and can easily be removed with pliers to change foundation if you need to. They are no more likely to corrode than nail gun brads or gimp pins. Putting frames together with staples is far quicker than hammering nails.

Also does anyone have a reason not to use panel pins instead of gimp pins? Other than the price (panel pins are much cheaper and more readily available) it is just a surface coating difference.

Ross

 

[itma]

... Other than the price (panel pins are much cheaper and more readily available) it is just a surface coating difference.

Ross

The gimp pin's black coating is usually referred to as being rustproofing.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Why are staples a no no?

Lots of people do use staples for frames.

 

[yeogi75]

if your replacing frames on three or four yearly rotation why would you need to replace the foundation unless it was diseased so pins staples don't come into to it

 

[Ross]

The gimp pin's black coating is usually referred to as being rustproofing.

That's my point, staples are usually galvanised, panel pins come in bright steel, BZP or galvanised. So there is no need to buy expensive gimp pins when galvanised or BZP panel pins will do.

Stapling is very quick and easy, particularly with an electric stapler and it puts 2 thin fixings into the timber instead of one fat one. Meaning the timber should be less likely to split and hold more solidly.

Ross

 

[yeogi75]

plus you can get 20mm gimp pins for £1.00 packet roughly enough to do 50 frames from the range

 

[psafloyd]

Staples are a no no, use gimp pins or a nail gun with 16mm brads, never had wood splitting with gimp pins but if it's happening to you turn the nail upside down and hit the sharp end with a hammer to blunt it.

I've been using 15mm brads and found them very good. I can build frames far more quickly, without snapping pins, almost taking my eye out or hitting my fingers.

 

[Hitchinhoney]

Suze, I had a similar problem last year with the bottom bars being slightly oversize, I just used a Stanley knife to shave off a little wood from each end. The frames I purchased were seconds from a well known supplier, so I was expecting a few issues, mainly knots on the top bars.

This year I bought my self a nail gun and 5000 15mm brads. I Can put a fame together in about a third of the time. Hammer, Big fingers, little nails = sore thumb.

Suze, if you need 19mm frame nails, I have a load spare now that I have the nail gun. Am in Hitchin, pm me if you want them.

 

[Little John]

With exception of the foundation securing bar, is there any reason why glue could not be used ? Admittedly, using glue would not be as fast as nailing - but if you're only making a few ?

LJ