First true loss...Doh...

[Queens59]

OK, Oxalic (finally...) last Saturday 9th...Every hive 4-7 seams, and i was well pleased. All the hives still OK on stores. active on sunnyish days at temps of 6+ degrees.

Wednesday 13th, noticed one hive showing no signs of activity...opened it up and completely dead - but still in a clump.

• Not starvation - frames still had stores, and no heads in cells.
• No obvious signs of illness inside the hive
• Some robbing on a few frames, but obviously after the death as they were so well clumped
• Crown board damp, although the hive was my newest and most recently sealed - also had OMF
  
  Oxalic was a trickle bottle from a prickly place, ready made up (I'd been ill, so took the lazy way out) 3.2% solution - and no other hive has reacted like this.
  
  I've taken a sample for Nosema testing but a bit down about my first loss...oh well...

 

[whoosling]

so sorry hope the rest of your bees are ok

 

[Finman]

-
Tracheal mite uses to kill that way. If you test, look tracheas with microscope.

 

[beeno]

Hi Queens59,
So sorry that you lost a colony. This will get the anti OA lobby going! Now I have to worry about Tracheal mites as well Finman. As anyone had a confirmed Tracheal deadout on this forum? At least you are not beeless Queens59, but it is sad nonetheless. Lots of luck with the rest of them.

 

[Tom Bick]

Sorry for the loss Q59

It may just be coincidence but it often comes up that hive ok when treated with oxalic then a few weeks later all dead. Perhaps it’s a case that the hive although looked ok but was on the brink of death and the disturbance and application of oxalic is the final nail in the coffin?

I remember some time ago and don’t have the link at hand but it was mentioned that after oxalic nosema ceranae perhaps present can become a major problem?

Good move to test.

 

[Finman]

Nosema ceranae is quite common in hives nowadays. It it kills with oxalic acid, dead out should be more.

I have not heard that oxalic do sudden dead outs. It has been used over 10 years in wide practice.


Here is a reseach from Uruguay. They looked for oxalic trickling toxity to honeybees.
They found that statistically dead rate does not deviate from zero.

acute contact toxicity test of oxalic acid on honeybees in the ...

www.chileanjar.cl/files/V72I2Y2012CJAR11218.pdf -

 

[oliver90owner]

This will get the anti OA lobby going!'

Well, I am not 'anti OA'. I have it in my armoury but have simply not needed to use it, in the depths of winter, for the last five years, nor at other times of the year either. I simply use one of the alternative treatments, of which there are several.

Just hissed off at those that spout 'it must be done' and make out there is no other way to safely get your bees through the winter. Some just don't understand that varroa should not be killing colonies over winter (if treated properly in the autumn with an alternative). Like Wally whotsisname said in Beecraft - only ten per cent of hives likely need to be treated.

Tom may be right. Four seams is perhaps only 2 frames of bees (and perhaps not clustered, so actually very small already), so it may be pertinent as to whether this colony was a four or seven seamer.

Perhaps this is yet another area where beeks don't actually read what is written and assume it says what they are told it says?

 

[Tom Bick]

Nosema ceranae is quite common in hives nowadays. It it kills with oxalic acid, dead out should be more.

I have not heard that oxalic do sudden dead outs. It has been used over 10 years in wide practice.

Are you saying there is a link with nosema ceranae and oxalic? Not that one causes the other but does the oxalic make a bad situation worse.?

Just to add spotted the link finman at a brief look perhaps not covering what I was referring to but I will read it later all the same right now I have to move home.
Cheers.

 

[Finman]

Are you saying there is a link with nosema ceranae and oxalic? Not that one causes the other but does the oxalic make a bad situation worse.?

I doubt the link. Dead outs for trickling has not been reported during 10 years.
Show me a research about that

.

 

[Luminos]

Sorry about your bees, Q59
Think it must be coincidence re: OA - I did mine with Trickle2 and they're still alive (so far).

 

[Finman]

.
You may kill a small cluster if you give a too big volume of syrup. It makes bees wet and they loose the cluster control. Yes, I have seen it even in big hive if they get douple dose. I put saw dust into hive that it took exra syrup off.

If a hive is cold and there are few bees, they rise up to top bars and it seems like they are lots.
Lower parts of frames may be empty of bees and actully the colony gets too much syrup.

 

[cork beek]

Sorry for your loss Queens59, i know the feeling. Lost my first hives last week aswell

 

[onymee]

[*]crown board damp, although the hive was my newest and most recently sealed - also had omf

omf?

 

[VEG]

omf = open mesh floor

 

[onymee]

omf = open mesh floor

fanks

 

[Tom Bick]

.
You may kill a small cluster if you give a too big volume of syrup. It makes bees wet and they loose the cluster control. Yes, I have seen it even in big hive if they get douple dose. I put saw dust into hive that it took exra syrup off.

If a hive is cold and there are few bees, they rise up to top bars and it seems like they are lots.
Lower parts of frames may be empty of bees and actully the colony gets too much syrup.

Yes this would make sense and perhaps as good an explanation as to why from time to time people report all was ok at oxalic and then two weeks later all dead. Looking down from the top of the frames a couple of hundred bees would give you the impression that it is a full seam of bees and then perhaps receive to much oxalic/syrup and along with the disturbance to the bees enough to finish them off.

 

[beeno]

Yes this would make sense and perhaps as good an explanation as to why from time to time people report all was ok at oxalic and then two weeks later all dead. Looking down from the top of the frames a couple of hundred bees would give you the impression that it is a full seam of bees and then perhaps receive to much oxalic/syrup and along with the disturbance to the bees enough to finish them off.

Hi Tom Bick,
I am so glad you have made this point following on from Finman. It makes sense to me - human misdiagnosis of the true state of affairs. Happens all the time to all of us.

 

[Margaret Elisabeth]

Mmmm After reading this thread I am glad that I decided my colony might be too small for the OA. treatment, even though I had bought the trickle 2. any point in keeping it and if so should it be refrigerated?

 

[oliver90owner]

The size of the colony should be fairly apparent to the beek when the hive is cleared out. That is why we are all guessing or even looking for excuses.

 

[Tom Bick]

Not making any link or guess work to the op’s hive Rab regarding my post’s just simply commenting on my observations over a few years now and a bit of information has come from it.

This however is from the op’s first post “Wednesday 13th, noticed one hive showing no signs of activity...opened it up and completely dead - but still in a clump” not clear what is meant by clump but if Queens59 can say if it was smaller than what she thought at time of oxalic given she was looking down from the top of the frames will be interesting.