First inspection of the year.

[jenkinsbrynmair]

All are taking fondant which further confirms my suspicions

Why are you feeding fondant when you are so convinced there's plenty of ivy stores left? all they are doing is piling more stores away which will eventually end up in this year's honey

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Ivy is fine. I don’t know why this idea is so prevalent.

The usual mantra chanters like to spread that nonsense

 

[Murox]

Desperately hoping to get into the hives next week as up to now temps only 10 max or so and WINDY! My bees hit the Ivy really hard last October and some are unusually heavy for this time of year. I’m almost certain that brood boxes will be stuffed with with it and cramping laying space for new bees. All are taking fondant which further confirms my suspicions and winter bees are getting tired l’m sure.
WHY do they go for Ivy when it’s so useless to them……..where’s ‘evolution’ when you really need it! Is there something l could have done earlier?

When did ivy become bad for bees then ??
and what do your hives weigh now? I am confused as to why you feed fondant if you think the brood box is full of stores ???

 

[Curly green finger's]

Maybe for some - its not just temperatures though - wind and rain have kept my lot inside for weeks - February was particularly bad with storm after storm and I don't mean just the bigger named ones. Even today wind is over 30mph although the temperature (out of the wind) is a balmy 9 degrees, its set to rain later of course.

Same for me here on the south Shropshire hills expecially the apiarys on high ground bees have been indoors alot.

 

[Erichalfbee]

The usual mantra chanters like to spread that nonsense

Well you know what it’s like. Often these ideas are just repeated at Bee School.
At least this forum is a good way of letting beginners know the “mantra” to avoid.

 

[Murox]

Same for me here on the south Shropshire hills expecially the apiarys on high ground bees have been indoors alot.

 

[Hiveanidea]

Who on earth told you that fable!? it's as good a source of winter food ad any other, my bees thrive on it

Well, to start with, brood blocking is a fact if there are excess store frames left in the way of the queen right now. So much Ivy went in during October that the bees moved out for four nights (you may recall) and judging by weight these stores are still there. I returned supers at that time to give more bee room and within days they too were stuffed with Ivy.
All set solid in a week and not capped.
You say it is good but there’s too much of a good thing?…..
I doubt they would take fondant if they didn’t need it. In my case just half a kg to ease my worries.

 

[user 819]

If feeding fondant then certainly laying space will be restricted as one isn't allowing the bees to use the ivy stores up, bees have no issues using it. This will be indicated by large ivy grains on the floor insert if used or on the ground under an omf, it is as mentioned a myth repeated all to often.

It is a major late year source of pollen and nectar, why do you think the bees bother collecting it ?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I doubt they would take fondant if they didn’t need it

You'd be wrong then - it's stores, bees are opportunists, if they can take it down and store it they will, so in actual fact you are exacerbating the situation.

 

[Hiveanidea]

Ok, ok - all will be revealed next week when Spring proper arrives. At least there’s pollen going in during brief spells of glimmer. Raining now and Wind Warning notification just arrived.

 

[Arfermo]

Spring is sprung, the grass is gris, I wonder where the birdies is etc etc. Hawthorn hedges round here are stirring into leaf so am optimistic that the new season will start soon so I can find the queens I want to mark & clip and maybe dispatch. Boom boom.

 

[Antipodes]

I guess you are reaching the end of your summer there. Good crop?

We've moved into autumn now (we use the meteorological seasons down under), and will soon bring in the last of the honey. Not much of a season for me to be honest. In Tas, it was really wet in spring, which was terrible on the bees building up, and then almost record dry summer in parts, particularly in the South West (leatherwood) rainforest. La nina (coming from the east), substantially caused that dryness in the west, but is what also caused the rain and those recent killer floods in NSW and Qld. There was one place in Queensland that received an unimaginable 425mm of rain (16.73 inches), in just three hours. Western Australia, in contrast, copped fires and incredible heat, with the town of Onslow reaching a staggering (and record equal highest ever temperature down under), 50.7 degrees centigrade.

 

[enrico]

We've moved into autumn now (we use the meteorological seasons down under), and will soon bring in the last of the honey. Not much of a season for me to be honest. In Tas, it was really wet in spring, which was terrible on the bees building up, and then almost record dry summer in parts, particularly in the South West (leatherwood) rainforest. La nina (coming from the east), substantially caused that dryness in the west, but is what also caused the rain and those recent killer floods in NSW and Qld. There was one place in Queensland that received an unimaginable 425mm of rain (16.73 inches), in just three hours. Western Australia, in contrast, copped fires and incredible heat, with the town of Onslow reaching a staggering (and record equal highest ever temperature down under), 50.7 degrees centigrade.

Wow, good info thanks

 

[Murox]

Ok, ok - all will be revealed next week when Spring proper arrives. At least there’s pollen going in during brief spells of glimmer. Raining now and Wind Warning notification just arrived.

You may say that though I doubt my local topography and weather patterns support the notion but I remain optimistic.

 

[JamezF]

You may say that though I doubt my local topography and weather patterns support the notion but I remain optimistic.

Quite so. If Hiveanidea is in East Devon then that surely can't be too far from me, but there's precious little sign of things warming up here yet.

James

 

[pargyle]

Ok, ok - all will be revealed next week when Spring proper arrives. At least there’s pollen going in during brief spells of glimmer. Raining now and Wind Warning notification just arrived.

I think the premises that bees cannot cope with Ivy honey comes from the fact that it is impossible for human use once it is set in the comb ... and boy does it set ! But I always get a lot of Ivy honey stored by my bees late in the year and they overwinter mostly on that - sometimes with a top up of Invertbee if the Ivy flow coincides with bad weather. They never have a problem using it .. when you think about it why would they ? They can cope with a block of solid sugar if it is presented to them so why would they not cope with something they have stored for their own use ?

I think you are in danger of causing the problem you are seeking to avoid by feeding a well stocked hive at this time of the year ... they will store fondant if you feed them and they have enough stores to feed on, It is in the bees genetics to keep storing as long as there is a source of something that they can store ... it's why beekeepers get a crop of honey ... it's in their nature - they don't have a 'stop we've got enough stores committee' in the colony - all they have is the 'there's food available so get on and store it' one !

I would stop feeding them if they are that heavy ... indeed, they could already be stores bound and if they are you might consider removing a couple of frames of stores and replacing them with drawn frames. My bees are already finding lots of pollen and it won't be too long before they are finding decent nectar sources .. you are right .. the queen is going to need room to lay and once she gets going the build up will be rapid and she will need space.

It's really too early to do full inspections - even in the balmy West Country ... but I'd start by getting rid of the fondant and leave them be for a few more weeks yet. They are, clearly, not going to starve.

Bear in mind with modern insulation on hives or poly hives along with the subtle change in climate we are seeing they are being kept much warmer in winter and consequently do not use as much stores ... that fallacy that they eat more when they are warm is a myth ... they expend more energy heating a cold hive than they do in a hive where the ambient temperature can be maintained without as much effort. I often have to remove several frames of stores from my highly insulated poly hives in Spring.

 

[Beedogg]

As a matter of interest, what do you do with unconsumed fondant at the end of winter? This is my first season so I'm not at all experienced. I'm watching as two of my three colonies chomp their way through a 12.5kg block of fondant each, but I suspect that they won't have finished it when Spring does come.

So I guess my questions are: 1) when does one judge when to remove any unconsumed fondant; and 2) what do you do with it?

 

[pargyle]

As a matter of interest, what do you do with unconsumed fondant at the end of winter? This is my first season so I'm not at all experienced. I'm watching as two of my three colonies chomp their way through a 12.5kg block of fondant each, but I suspect that they won't have finished it when Spring does come.

So I guess my questions are: 1) when does one judge when to remove any unconsumed fondant; and 2) what do you do with it?

It's a matter of judgement - over the next few weeks you don't want them to starve but you also need to ensure the queen has enough space in the hive to lay.

What size hives are you using ? If it's a single national and feels heavy then I would stop the fondant feeding .. any fondant left over can be wrapped in cling film and kept - you can re-use it as required or dissolve it and feed it as syrup when they need it in the autumn.

One of the benefits of weighing your hives through winter, as well as hefting, is that it gives you a very good pattern to rely on in future years.

Hefting hives is easy and quick and the rule of three fingers is a good guide. If you can lift the hive with one finger they are probably very thin on stores and need feeding, if it needs two fingers - keep an eye on them but they are probably OK for a week or two, three fingers to lift - nothing to worry about. More than that and they feel like they are nailed to the floor - fine going into winter but at this time of year - you need to be careful as the queen needs space to lay so definitely don't need feeding.

 

[Beedogg]

That's useful, thanks. I started weighing the hives a few months ago to try to keep track of consumption. I use a digital baggage scale and just weigh one side since I assumed that I'm less interested in the actual weight than in the trends. Each of the hives (WBC) are currently at about 24kg (one side lifted half an inch). Two of them had only fondant on over all the winter. The third had a nearly-full super of Apivar-tainted honey which I left on as stores and then topped up with a smallish block of fondant a few weeks ago when I realised that that colony was lighter than the other two. So they are all at more or less the same weight now.

Using your finger guide I'd say that they are all 'three fingers heavy'. So you'd advise that I take off the remaining fondant and then just monitor? I'm in Southern England and, whilst today is horrible, there's been quite a lot of pollen going into all three hives over the last week or so.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

all will be revealed next week when Spring proper arrives