Feeding minerals to bees?

[thedozzer]

Ok silly question, following on from another thread and something i have been pondering, has anyone tried feeding minerals to bees other than in enriched fondant, IE separately in a mineral block?
The reason for asking is that like many i have noticed that the bees much prefer what we would conciser dirty water, but the bees may think/taste mineral enriched, like cow pats or horse manure.

Having looked after plenty of other livestock over the years, feeding salt licks is normal practice in most animal husbandry, and thought that maybe when we feed them Syrup & Fondant its missing quite a few things that they may require for building healthy bees?

No doubt in the wild they would be fine as we wouldn't be there nicking all there hard worked for supplies.

i suppose that they will get some from the stores of pollen they should have to hand, but was wondering if i got a small block of mineral lick in a damp container would it help reduce the air miles they have to travel, or would it be a waste of time?

Has any decent research been done?

 

[Ian123]

Ok assuming bees require minerals what access would the wild bees in a flat roof down the road have to say a cow pat that your kept bees would not, if they need it they will collect. I think theres been plenty of honey analised to show minimal mineral content so would not think the removal of stores would cause any issues there. I ve not seen any research along those lines but why not try a couple of water sources and drop a salt block in 1 to see any difference if that floats your boat. You could of course pee in 1 when the mrs is not looking as well

 

[thedozzer]

I ve not seen any research along those lines but why not try a couple of water sources and drop a salt block in 1 to see any difference if that floats your boat

I don't think that they use it in the capped honey, its more for larvae rearing, as they are an exoskeleton.

I have found one new bit of research = https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/een.12375 = RACHAEL E. BONOAN but it doesn't included Spring and only looked at foraging, not how it was used.

And this expands on it with the mention that bees seek out plant guttation droplets that contain high mineral traces.
https://www.bee-safe.eu/article/not-only-sweet-honey-bees-seasonal-salt-foraging/

And Kiechle (1961, in German) stated the preference for urine before pure water because of the contained minerals?

there are lots of Youtube vids of people feeding salt & mineral enriched water to bees but wanted to know if anyone on here has tried it and did they think it was worth it.

 

[Beefriendly]

The reason for asking is that like many i have noticed that the bees much prefer what we would conciser dirty water, but the bees may think/taste mineral enriched, like cow pats or horse manure.

Have you ever considered they prefer "smelly" sources of water because it is easier for them to communicate to other bees where they are.
In general water is pretty odourless and difficult to provide any scent clues when communicating it's source with dances.

 

[Ian123]

All good but why would kept bees require feeding it when they would collect it like any feral colonies

 

[Poly Hive]

Sorry to say but if you spend your life believing everything on youtube things are going to be confusing to say the least. As said if they need it they will find it.

PH

 

[domino]

Seems like one more thing to do, with very little return.

I feed my bees if I think they don't have enough stores - even then I suspect if I didn't feed them they'd be ok.

 

[madasafish]

Seems like one more thing to do, with very little return.

I feed my bees if I think they don't have enough stores - even then I suspect if I didn't feed them they'd be ok.

I have bees collecting water from our garden pond, damp moss, damp potting compost, damp soil, mud, cow pats, cow urine, etc etc..

I'll not bother feeding minerals

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Sorry to say but if you spend your life believing everything on youtube

:Iagree:

Spoke to a PHD student out in Joburg a few years ago and part of her studies involved whether bees needed to forage urine/dirty water etc for minerals. Answe was more or less no.

Again, this is all down to the snake oil salesmen, I noticed in the tradex this year that things have moved on fron the prettily coloured pollen infused fondants to all kind of mineral and vitamin sprinkled offerings (at a vastly inflated price)

 

[birdsandbees]

There is another theory regarding the possible reason that bees go for shallow muddy puddles, wet materials and even pee, a deep body of water would be a lot cooler would it not, a bees internal temperature would drop quicker if it took on a load from a cold source than if it were take water from a warmer source.

It may also explain why bees often collect water from hot tubs or swimming pools, not because of the minerals but simply due to the temperature.

 

[thedozzer]

Have you ever considered they prefer "smelly" sources of water because it is easier for them to communicate to other bees where they are.
In general water is pretty odourless and difficult to provide any scent clues when communicating it's source with dances.

Hi BF, from what some of the research that I have found suggested, smell played little or no part in it, but then that is smell as we think of, not how a bee does, maybe they can smell chemical traces?

All good but why would kept bees require feeding it when they would collect it like any feral colonies

Hi Ian. We feed them fondant & Syrup but feral colonies don’t need that either. But I suppose we do nick their honey.

Sorry to say but if you spend your life believing everything on youtube things are going to be confusing to say the least. As said if they need it they will find it. PH

Hi PH, its not just youtube (im not that naive) from the peer reviewed paper in The Royal Entomological Society, Rachael Bonoan and her researchers have found from proper study, the bees preferred mineral/salt bearing water, and I’m sure bees don’t do anything without good reason.
So what I am trying to find out, is the effort of giving the bees a mineral enriched source of water, close to hand, going to help improve the health/strength of the colony and reduce the time they spend looking for that resource, from the answers so far, Im guessing no one really knows.

 

[Beefriendly]

Hi BF, from what some of the research that I have found suggested, smell played little or no part in it, but then that is smell as we think of, not how a bee does, maybe they can smell chemical traces?

Most of the bee dance research suggests scent plays quite a vital role in final location.
But, if you have any specific references for research papers relating to dances for water sources I'd be interested to read them.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Bees also taste salts with their feet.

https://www.livescience.com/43103-bees-taste-with-feet.html

 

[Beefriendly]

Even more fascinating. Seems salt requirement in bees is a much understudied subject.

 

[thedozzer]

Bees also taste salts with their feet.

https://www.livescience.com/43103-bees-taste-with-feet.html

Thank you for the link HM

This is the whole paper i think https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnbeh.2014.00025/full

Even more fascinating. Seems salt requirement in bees is a much understudied subject.

This one is the second paper i have found from links in the first, it does read like the bees have a preference for very specific mineral concentrations.

http://labs.biology.ucsd.edu/nieh/papers/LauNieh2016.pdf

as for the waggle dance smell thing, from the two papers i found so far, it would look like it is only the water foragers that seek out the brackish water, and how they communicate is not covered anywhere i can find, but would imagine it may be similar to how they communicate nectar?? and reading the link Hivemaker posted, the scientists believe that the bees only need a tiny sample to evaluate salinity of a water source!!
The more you read about bees, you realise what amazing little insects they are.

 

[For want of a better word]

Thank you for the link HM

This is the whole paper i think https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnbeh.2014.00025/full



This one is the second paper i have found from links in the first, it does read like the bees have a preference for very specific mineral concentrations.

http://labs.biology.ucsd.edu/nieh/papers/LauNieh2016.pdf

as for the waggle dance smell thing, from the two papers i found so far, it would look like it is only the water foragers that seek out the brackish water, and how they communicate is not covered anywhere i can find, but would imagine it may be similar to how they communicate nectar?? and reading the link Hivemaker posted, the scientists believe that the bees only need a tiny sample to evaluate salinity of a water source!!
The more you read about bees, you realise what amazing little incests they are.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=incests

Shirly a typo !

Great thread tho!!!

 

[thedozzer]

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=incests

Shirly a typo !

Great thread tho!!!

In the words of Jasper Carrot, you leave us Disloxics alone you winker.

 

[For want of a better word]

In the words of Jasper Carrot, you leave us Disloxics alone you winker.

Take it with a pinch of salt!!......

AND... it is Jasper Carrot's brithday today!!

Fria Tuck to you too!!

Chons da

 

[Poly Hive]

Interesting.

So if they do have a requirement for minerals I wonder where they get them fro up here as our water is very soft. As far from Burton as you can get in the water stakes.

PH

 

[Beefriendly]

how they communicate is not covered anywhere i can find, but would imagine it may be similar to how they communicate nectar?? and reading the link Hivemaker posted, the scientists believe that the bees only need a tiny sample to evaluate salinity of a water source!!
The more you read about bees, you realise what amazing little insects they are.

Thanks for the links very interesting. As I thought no-one has studied water dances and how the "scent" of the source may influence recruitment. The literature often alludes to the difficulty of recruiting bees to water sources.
I may conduct my own citizen science next year by using a scented and unscented water feeder in the garden and see which attracts the most bees soonest