Feeding Fondant

[victor meldrew]

PeterS,

I always wonder why one puts a super on as a sub! What is your reasoning behind it?

The bees always store honey above the broodnest, if not in it, never below, so why put their food where it will get cold, and the bees will stay with brood above until all hatched. That might mean they start the cold weather above those stores and will always munch upwards....

Regards, RAB

Look up at an omf and often you'll find the cluster hanging below the frames and in contact with the mesh !. The sub-super gives them room to cluster below the frames (they do this when working their stores from the frame bottoms). Also, the sub super acts as a foil against turbulance in windy conditions .

John Wilkinson

 

[oliver90owner]

Well, mine certainly don't get one. They are on 14 x 12s and there is enough food in there to keep them busy until Feb at the least. If there was a subber below there would be so much stores as to be rediculous. I always thought bees probably know best where they put their stores - they have been practising for many a millenium, after all. Learn something new every day.

Merry christmas, RAB

 

[grizzly]

I think the bees will eat fondant if it is available rather than use up their honey stores.

My bees did this last year, ignored their stores and cleaned out the bags of fondant i placed on, when spring came i saw plenty of stores left on the brood frames.

 

[Poly Hive]

Which takes us neatly to what do you do with filled frames in Spring that the Q cannot lay up by reason of the contents?

Discuss.....

PH

 

[oliver90owner]

Extract? Scrape the cappings and let the bees to use/move it? Put it below the brood and let them move it? Remove and feed back later or to another colony (if health is OK)?

Lots of options, but obviously, at the same time, one would have to supply empty frames for the queen to lay up. No problem at all if you practise 'shook swarm' every spring......

Oh, and it depends on what is in the combs - proper honey or sugar honey.

Regards, RAB

 

[grizzly]

I like to scrape and let the bees use, when clean these frames are moved forward, oldest and blackest brood removed, and new undrawn slides into the outside.

Though its rarely that simple.

 

[victor meldrew]

Well, mine certainly don't get one. They are on 14 x 12s and there is enough food in there to keep them busy until Feb at the least. If there was a subber below there would be so much stores as to be rediculous. I always thought bees probably know best where they put their stores - they have been practising for many a millenium, after all. Learn something new every day.

Merry christmas, RAB

A misunderstanding I fear!!. the subber in question doesn't contain any frames at all . Bees have not been subjected to open mesh floors for millennia !!, only since the advent of varroa which has changed the way we handle bees beyond recognition. Learn something new every day .
Very merry Christmas John.

 

[oliver90owner]

Victor,

with a super under on (OM floor) which was full

Fear it may have been a misunderstanding - mine or yours?

I have put an empty super (as in empty - no frames) under the brood box before. But if cool spring weather prevents one getting to remove it early, it can be part full of drawn comb I have found. So I don't do it any more. Might be OK for those of us who are not in employment any longer, but the vagaries of the British weather means it always seems to conspire against me - having warm weekdays and freezing weekends in the early spring!

Now I have more spare super frames, perhaps I could try a super full of frames with empty comb, but I would anticipate she would simply lay downstairs at the first opportunity. I like to keep as many super frames as possible brood-free.

Also not an option with the Dartingtons, and they seem perfectly OK with just a 14 x 12 frame space and the OMF for the bees at this time of the year (although I do slip a board under the body at cold times like this. They certainly don't hang down onto the OMF mesh when it is cold and have all their stores in and around the brood nest. They are overwintered on 10,11 or 12 frames generally and there is simply oodles of space to just slot in empty frames as required without disturbing the brood nest more than the absolute minimum. 10 frames would probably be adequate but what with the late brooding and foraging this last couple of seasons they have ended with somewhat more frames than anticipated.

Merry christmas, RAB

 

[victor meldrew]

I posted earlier on another thread that due to shortage of equipment at our branch out apiary we over Wintered 2008/2009, 2 colonies on solid floors, these 2 colonies got away much quicker this Springtime than the ones on omfs; 2 (different) colonies have been put into Winter on solid floors this year so we shall see what we see? come Springtime 2010 .
On the varroa front , there appeared to be no disadvantage as regards mite load on the 2 colonies over Wintered on solid floors .

John Wilkinson

 

[oliver90owner]

So we might be closing the floors up a bit/a lot when spring brood expansion time arrives? I would still be going with OMFs for the ventilation aspect (that is why I changed over anyway). In my early years I failed miserably to balance the top ventilation to achieve zero damp in the hive. The change to OMFs was so easy and easier still when I adopted the jumbo format.

One has the option to close up an OMF - with a solid floor, that option is simply not there.

Regards, RAB

 

[Hawklord]

I would anticipate she would simply lay downstairs at the first opportunity.

An over-wintering colony will work it's way upwards through the stores and when laying commences in spring it will start laying at the top of the frames just below the honey and pollen. Eventually the brood will increase downwards as it can't go upwards due to the queen excluder. With my set up, for the queen to start laying in the super would be disastrous as I use drone base foundation in all my supers, hence leaving the queen excluder on.

ATB, Col.

 

[oliver90owner]

Hawklord,

I am hoping I am not reading your post correctly. If you have a Q/E on your hive at present between the brood and a super of stores above, you are likely to have a dead queen by the spring - left behind as the feeding cluster moves upwards during the winter.

This must be rectified at the soonest opportunity if this is the case.

Regards, RAB

 

[Hawklord]

Super is below queen excluder and brood box above. There was 5 frames of stores nearly capped and was put under at the end of September so should be empty by now.

 

[victor meldrew]

Moisture in the right place in a hive can prove useful for diluting stores to a workable consistency ,when a trip outdoors would be suicide ?. I've yet to come across a colony that doesn't propolise every gap at the top of the hive!.
The trick of raising the crown board on match sticks ,too late in the season for the bees to correct what they see as an abnormal situation ,goes against the "bees have been doing it for millennia" stance.

John.

 

[oliver90owner]

trick of raising the crown board on match sticks

Never ever tried that. Layers of permeable insulation over the crownboard (with an open feed hole) never seemed to work properly. Seemed to be too much leakage through the insulating layers above the feeder hole or not enough...

Someone suggested a super full of wood shavings, but I never tried that either as I adopted OMFs and never looked back.

Regards, RAB

 

[RoofTops]

These exchanges are like a window into the Dark Ages. In the era where I do my beekeeping, the 21st Century, I have none of these problems as I use well insulated hives which keep the bees warm and dry in winter and cool in summer.

However, those who insist on using old hives must overcome the limitations of the beasts so I am sure there is some useful advice here. So before anyone comes bouncing back in retaliation, I am not being critical of the advice, only lamenting the need for it to be given at all.

 

[Hivemaker.]

And to be completly bang up to date with your 21st century beekeeping you cannot get any hive more newer than the revolutionary new Omlet Beehaus.So get up to date and order one early to avoid dissapointment,as demand could be high.

 

[oliver90owner]

OK Hivemaker, I will bite.

Revolutionary in materials of manufacture, that is all.

Lets look a little closer: Frames - standardised about 85 years ago. Those hives similar, and prior to that, would likely have a different size of frame. There are several similar layouts from the 19th and 20th centuries. The Dartington has been around for about 25 years or so (copyrighted when?). Hives (excluding the Dartington) that big have been around and are still in use (ask Finman). Triple layer insulation has been used for many a year before someone decided to use the term as advertising for the 'new' hive.

It looks like a simple blow-moulded product? Lots of things blow-moulded - plastic oil drums and food containers come to mind, so that is not entirely revolutionary.

Not sure how the 'revolutionary' hive would be coping with continued weather patterns similar to (or even much worse than) that which we are experiencing now. Time will tell, I daresay, but I reckon it could be OK. I have no practical experience other than with the Dartington, which copes well (I can add an extra coat of insulation if I want to - and do) and the bees can be confined to the centre sections.

I reckon demand for Hivemaker-made hives will likely be proportionately 'more in demand' than the mass produced new design.

I also foresee a mark II being formulated somewhere - or at least some subtle changes introduced.

1 s and 2 p's please! I will not be disappointed, I hope. All the (expensive) Christmas prezzies should be ordered and be delivered very shortly, so the next rush will be as soon as bees become available, if there is a rush. The fad may have calmed down by then.

If rooftops is using polylangstroths, they are good. I can see that. I might change from wood to plastic but I am afraid I started with WBCs and Nationals and they will last me some time yet (probably last me out). I am presently considering buying a nuc or two in polystyrene to try out for over-wintering as they are now available (expensive though) in 14 x 12, my preferred format.

Regards, RAB

 

[jimbeekeeper]

I also foresee a mark II being formulated somewhere - or at least some subtle changes introduced.

I suspect so as well.

My preference would be for in effect a national hive but as the Omlet double blown moulding, therfore fully interchangable to national.

They could then branch out to the other types of hive.









PS You now owe me £20 Pete! LOL

 

[oliver90owner]

PS You now owe me £20 Pete!

Shouldn't that be the other way round - advertising for you?

Regards, RAB