Feeding bees in our curious Autumn

[AdrianSmith]

Bakers fondant is what most of us mean when we talk about fondant

This thread (and my current alcohol level) tempts me to confess to my worst mistake so far.
About 4 weeks ago I took the syrup off my hive and replaced it with an eke like that, with fondant covered by cling-film. But what to do with the syrup I'd removed? I thought I'd have a go at fondant making and added more sugar, boiled it up lots, whipped it as it cooled in a smaller feeder and left it for a few days. It looked nice and white and solid so I put it inverted over a whole in a the crown-board above the eke after I'd removed the cling-film from directly below the hole.
I went out that night to empty the compost bin, shone the torch at the hive and was surprised to see bees on the outside. I looked closer and was shocked to see the entrance blocked up with my sugary substance! The returning bees couldn't get in. So, it was out with the entrance restriction while I cleared what I could with a stick.
They seem to have sorted them out since then though. There's still lots of pollen going in and the stuff falling through the floor isn't wet.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Oh dear....I suppose the warmth of the nest melted it.

luckydunny, have a look here http://www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/PENotes/Fondant.htm

 

[Poly Hive]

Feeding fondant.

Put on empty super or eke. Put on fondant, as per pic, so lots of, probably massively over what the bees need. Relax. Insulate the super, as in bubble wrap or a hefty chunk of insulation on top.

Remember if you have OMF floors they go hand in hand (an unbreakable partnership) with top insulation.

Please put your fondant on top of the top bars. Your Crown board should be on top of your super or eke with insulation on top of that.

Your bees love warmth as much as you do.... if not more.

Any excess Bakers White Fondant can be made into syrup in the Spring.

If your bees go through winter with out touching their stores and are "honey bound" in spring then you have a hive tool and the use of it judiciously will cure that issue.

PH

 

[BeeMoustashe]

Feeding fondant.

Put on empty super or eke. Put on fondant, as per pic, so lots of, probably massively over what the bees need. Relax. Insulate the super, as in bubble wrap or a hefty chunk of insulation on top.


PH

So you would put the fondant directly on the queen excluder/frames rather than over the hole in the crownboard?

 

[Andre cardona]

So you would put the fondant directly on the queen excluder/frames rather than over the hole in the crownboard?

are both ways ok

 

[mazzamazda]

So you would put the fondant directly on the queen excluder/frames rather than over the hole in the crownboard?

You shouldn't have a QE on at this time of year, fondant on frames.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Follow Peter Edwards advice in the link, and place it on a queen excluder if feeding a large block,helps to stop it sagging down between the frames.
I also fed fondant and fondant only for several years, and used this method with no problems,except lack of thymol.

 

[oliver90owner]

Oh my goodness!! I will never get all that stuff in a chinese takeaway container, nor mushroom plastic box

Those are for those amongst us that may need to feed fondant much later in the winter - as top-up if the hive hefts light - not for wholesale autumn feeding or feeding as a substitute for proper winter stores.

I've never yet given more than a couple Kilos (2 chinese take-away containers) to a full colony with fair stores level in autumn. Usually don't need to give any at all with 14 x 12s.

RAB

 

[gavin]

Follow Peter Edwards advice in the link, and place it on a queen excluder if feeding a large block,helps to stop it sagging down between the frames.

Absolutely. I've put it straight on the top bars in the past and it gets messy. The sagging between the frames, and also the near-impossibility of lifting it for the oxalic acid dribble (not that you would do such a things HM). On the queen excluder is the way to go. Mine may get some at the time of the oxalic dribble should they need some.

 

[Suzi Q]

Just a quick question, fed my bees 2-1 syrup about 2 months ago now, the hives are still heavy but I'm sure the bees have started using it. Do they start upcapping the stores from the outside in? And if started on the outside frames, would they start uncapping from the bottom to the top? Are the bees particular about keeping a condensed shape of stores to overwinter with.

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

So you would put the fondant directly on the queen excluder/frames rather than over the hole in the crownboard?

are both ways ok

Yup

 

[oliver90owner]

Are the bees particular about keeping a condensed shape of stores to overwinter with.

They might - until they cluster and stay clustered. Think about it?

They will doubtless attempt to move stores up, if not clustered and someone, in their opinion, has stupidly put stores where they don't want them. Likewise they will consume, or move, any stores below the broodnest in spring, I am sure. They do want things tidy, and organised as they want them. Brooding will start wherever the bees are clustered at the time, which is not normally at the bottom of the stores lowest level at that time.

RAB

 

[Beeline]

So you would put the fondant directly on the queen excluder/frames rather than over the hole in the crownboard?

Whilst the bees are relatively active, as they have been up til now, you can place the fondant directly on the frames, on the QE or over the crown board hole. They'll still find it.

I believe the risk you run with applying it over the crownboard is when you haven't been feeding them fondant in this manner but discover mid winter that they are starving. The nest is formed and even though the fondant is placed within reach over the hole, they don't always find their way to it and starve to death.

I haven't suffered this fate - just what I have picked up from others.

I'm using 2-3kg bags (ziplock bags - as recommended by a fellow forum member) over the crownboard and replace when necessary.

 

[itma]

<<<Oh my goodness!! I will never get all that stuff in a chinese takeaway container, nor mushroom plastic box >>>

Those are for those amongst us that may need to feed fondant much later in the winter - as top-up if the hive hefts light - not for wholesale autumn feeding or feeding as a substitute for proper winter stores.

I've never yet given more than a couple Kilos (2 chinese take-away containers) to a full colony with fair stores level in autumn. Usually don't need to give any at all with 14 x 12s.

RAB

Whilst the bees are relatively active, as they have been up til now, you can place the fondant directly on the frames, on the QE or over the crown board hole. They'll still find it.

I believe the risk you run with applying it over the crownboard is when you haven't been feeding them fondant in this manner but discover mid winter that they are starving. The nest is formed and even though the fondant is placed within reach over the hole, they don't always find their way to it and starve to death.

...

So better to overfeed now, rather than expect to re-assess things when the lid comes off for the New Year's Day shower?

 

[oliver90owner]

So better to overfeed now

Ya can't really overfeed now while the bees are active. Said that somewhere else.

You can do damage, IMO, by feeding syrup now, if non-thymolated and the weather turns cold , as it surely will.

People need to think of what they are doing, why they are doing it and the repercussions if done wrong or not appropriate. Then, and only then, will these people actually learn to think, and justify, what they intend to do, as being a sensible course of action.

I don't normally take off the lid and give them a shower mid-winter - I leave that for the more paranoid amongst us, or those beefarmers who might do this as a normal routine.

Furthermore, the crownboards often have a central hole and an offset one. If the hive hefts light, it should not be beyond the beekeeper to position the fondant fairly directly over the cluster (which will be near the top of the box). If it is beyond the beekeeper to sort out that small item of re-arrangement if necessary, yes, there is less likelihood the bees will find the fresh food and, thus, more of a risk of starvation.

For the past several years I have only re-assessed the stores needs by hefting in February as I know there will be more than adequate for the bees until then. The situation may be a little different for those with only the one or few colonies on a single deep broodbox, but that was their choice for winter hive configuration, so they have to live with it.

Stands to reason, if one thinks about feeding, that the solution is usually fairly evident. As I see it, it is simply using some common sense to overcome a small problem, not just hoping 'on a wing and a prayer'; and not inventing problems just for the sake of an excuse to worry about something else.

RAB

 

[BeeMoustashe]

Thanks for all the info there. My plan then, is to put the fondant on over the weekend, over the central feed hole while the bees are still active, to take up the slack in the stores from the autumn syrup feed. After this with luck they won't need any more as winter progresses but if they do, and it's colder weather, I'll plop it directly onto the frames where they can find it.

I almost sound like I know what I'm doing.