Feeder design

[JamezF]

I'm going to make a batch of feeders over the next few weeks and have been looking at the designs on the Dave Cushman site. I was tempted by the diagonal Miller, but I can't really see the single feed volume being that much of an advantage, so I think I'm going to stick with a standard-ish Miller design.

The one thing I can't decide upon is whether to allow the bees out into the main feed volumes (by leaving a 6mm gap under the feeding channel walls for the bees to use once they've taken down most of the syrup).

Not allowing the bees out of the feeding channel means it can have a roof and the bees can't get out of the top of the hive making it easier to refill without drowning bees.

Allowing the bees out means they clean up the feeder better and can get to any syrup that has pooled away from the feeding channel if the hive isn't sufficiently level.

I could make the floor with a very slight slope from the outside towards the feeding channels to avoid the non-level hive problem, but equally life may be too short

Anyone care to express a preference for design? Are there bulk feeders that are generally considered "better" than the Miller version?

James

 

[dpearce4]

i went for the ashforth style of feeder. with the feed hole at the side unlike the miller where it is in the middle. they work really well and if you put it on so the holes are at the lowest point on the hive the bees get to get all the syrup.

cheap to build to cost less than £10 each much cheaper than buying them at £40+ each

 

[Midland Beek]

Letting the bees out to clean up the remains sounds a good idea, but with bees in the main volume are you can't top the feeder up. You will have to try and top up before the feeder runs dry.

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

I'd go for the best of both worlds, have the divider removable so they can get in when you want them, and cant when you dont.

Re the Ashforth/Miller debate, only really experienced Ashforth which I found worked really well once I'd figured out which was the low side of the hive.

 

[Davelin]

I made two last season following Dave Cushman's plan. I left a gap big enough for the bees to get under so they cleaned it all out, which was the plus side, but as already stated it was a pain to refill if you let the level drop too far as I had to shake all the bees off it, and there were plenty on it.

Another plus was that I put all my cappings in it after extraction and they were cleaned up beautifully, on balance I would go for the bigger gap.

 

[Rosti]

I dont think you have to be restrictive or make a choice on gap. I have now made 5 millers and the design has evolved a little. The main point is that if you make the outer boards removeable then you can change gaps / take out completely / block off that side depending on what you want to do. I use clear perspex as the top cover to check what is going on, 2 screws and you can change boards quickly (original as pictured was 4). Above all make sure all surfaces are epoxied and waterproof. Routing main joints improves surface contact and strength. Make sure covers are epoxied as well, mould will grow on the internal surface otherwise! Not obvious from the pics but also coat the inner baffles sides with a little sand to improve purchase and reduce drowning casualties.

I use mainly for autum feeding (too big for spring stimulation). Mine are high capacity 8 ltrs per side and during autumn feeding I use one side only, if/when it blocks with crystalising sugar I then switch to the other side.

 

[Headnavigator]

Used both in tandem last year and found the Ashforth the easier to set up, fill and and maintain. The Miller cost me a few bees till I got it set up absolutely right, key seems to be making the set-up absolutely bee-proof so they cannot get in via roof or elsewhere. Had much more crystallised sugar in the Miller too, whereas the Ashforth was able to drain the last drop to the feed area.

 

[Into the lions den]

There is a great Scottish word that Polyhive will know well. Miller feeders are a 'scutter'........meaning they are relatively fiddly and less than perfect for full syrup drainage. Ashforth style much simpler as you can orientate it to drain to the low end.

Poly feeders do not need even that level of carefulness as the base is sloped.........thick and high at the back of the feeder, lower and thinner at the front beside the access slot, so, within reason, you can always have the syrup running to the front edge of the brood box where the bees seem to take it fastest.

Fancy devices or barriers to keep the bees out of the syrup generally come with both Millers and poly style Ashforths. Actually the bees take the syrup faster if you just cover the top of the syrup with a liberal layer of straw (so much you can hardly see the syrup) and then place the cover board (if any, none needed in poly) in such a manner to allow the bees unlimited access internally.

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Poly feeders do not need even that level of carefulness as the base is sloped.........

Actually the bees take the syrup faster if you just cover the top of the syrup with a liberal layer of straw

ITLD - are these the Sweinty feeders you are referring to? I'm assuming that not all poly feeders are created equal?

Re the straw idea, is there not an issue when you want to refill?

 

[drex]

I have found the Thornes cheapo drop in feeders at £6 something a time well worth it. At first they had minor design faults, but two I bought last year were fine. Seems cheaper than making your own. I think they are national size only though

 

[drstitson]

"Poly feeders do not need even that level of carefulness as the base is sloped"

typical support from a scot for this design - even their livestock (haggises) are bred with two short legs to better inhabit the sloping terrain.

 

[Poly Hive]

The straw will be relatively dry and gives the bees plenty of escapes.

"A richt scutter min" they are that ITLD.

PH

 

[susbees]

"Poly feeders do not need even that level of carefulness as the base is sloped"

typical support from a scot for this design - even their livestock (haggises) are bred with two short legs to better inhabit the sloping terrain.

Tosh. The ones on the hills outside my window as a child had one shorter than the other....for running around the hillside.

After a quarter century of Macsween's best and the school's version (oddly less dubious than most other things they passed for dinners), got through making my own (nay bad) to Macsween's catering veggie version. And very good it is too....even to the non-veggies amongst my offspring.

 

[Into the lions den]

ITLD - are these the Sweinty feeders you are referring to? I'm assuming that not all poly feeders are created equal?

Re the straw idea, is there not an issue when you want to refill?

I have Lang poly feeders from LP in Sweden....bottoms sloped
Smith /Nat polys from Nakka is Sweden..bottom sloped
Poly Lang size from Betterbee in USA (actually made in Canada).bottom sloped
Wooden Lang size also from Betterbee.......bottom sloped
My own mould for wooden Smith size......bottom sloped.

Not actually seen one with this simple aid to use omitted.

Sorry...just realised I fib...seen a one piecer from Denmark for their 'lavnormal' hive that is flat bottomed, but they seem to always use this with straw or bark chips in it and free access for the bees and throw away the barrier.

 

[Into the lions den]

Re the straw idea, is there not an issue when you want to refill?

Once they have taken all the syrup.....and they even suck the straw bone dry.............most of the bees are no longer hanging about in the feeder.

However, even if a few are, you just pull the straw back to one end of the feeder.................pour in your syrup, and then let the straw moved back across the top to where it was before. If you do not like that just lift it out, and after refilling stick it back on top..............or given that it is bio degradable and dirt cheap............ discard and use fresh.

Worth pointing out that this is a great AUTUMN way to feed, adds weight rapidly...........sometimes get the full 14Kg into a poly deep in under 48 hours. Its a little more problematic in spring, where expansion and comb building instincts are strong.......... and in the bigger colonies you have to watch for bees going up into the feeder, hanging in there and building wild comb......................in which case you should possibly have considered adding an excluder and a super rather than a feed, or extra brood space and a feed.

 

[drstitson]

"The ones on the hills outside my window as a child had one shorter than the other"

That's what i meant - two short ones on one side and normal length ones on other side.

 

[Into the lions den]

You have plainly never seen one! Otherwise you would have made mention of the retractible udders (or other dangly bits if males) to save problems when their route of escape from assassins mounted on kelpies meant they had to get over gorse bushes. And then there are the remarkable antlers.

 

[JamezF]

Wooden Lang size also from Betterbee.......bottom sloped

Was wondering about that just now. It's not really more difficult to make an Ashforth with a sloping floor than a level one. Monsieur AB might even find it considerably easier

It does however mean that you don't get a single bee-space gap under the floor (unless you put an additional level false bottom in, which is never going to happen, let's be honest). Do the bees tend to ignore that area anyhow? I can see there's a definite advantage for the poly feeder in this instance in that the floor can easily be made with a flat underside and a sloping top.

James

 

[Winker]

"The ones on the hills outside my window as a child had one shorter than the other"

That's what i meant - two short ones on one side and normal length ones on other side.

were you drinking the malt when you seen them? as they only have 2 legs, one shorter than the other! Or at least thats how they used to be around the Cliffs at Arbroath

 

[JamezF]

were you drinking the malt when you seen them? as they only have 2 legs, one shorter than the other! Or at least thats how they used to be around the Cliffs at Arbroath

That's the lowland haggis. The highland one has more legs for greater surefootedness on the steep slopes.

James