Failed grafts?

[sean-a]

I tried grafting some lavae into some cups yesterday afternoon.
I checked them this afternoon and there did not seem to be any change to the cups or the lavae.
No wax at all being put down around the cups.

It looks like these have all failed :-((

Any alternate views?

 

[Beefriendly]

Lot depends on the strength of your cell raiser colony. How was this set up? and how strong was the original colony, in say frames of brood.

 

[Finman]

.
I tired to wait how many grafts bees accept. That is why I graft into swarming cells. Result is almost 100%.

I mean, such happens.

Last summer I compared 3 systems in a swarm fever colony.

- graft my made cups in the lower part of frame
- graft swarm cells
- give Miller frames when I took laying queen away.

On third day bees really started to make queen cells in Miller and in another parts. Third day was best to graft.

Miller frame gove most queen cells. To early capped you just take away.


I got about 20 cells from one box hive (in swarming fever). Another box I took away and nade a split with laying queen.

...... I mean, there are many ways to rear queen.
.

 

[B+.]

Any alternate views?

If there is no wax and no larvae in the cells, it certainly failed. There are a number of things that could have gone wrong:

1 You may have damaged the larva during transport (rolled or stretched)
2. The larvae may be too old
3. You may have turned the larva when depositing it in the cell (there are a line of spiracles (or breathing holes) along one side. If you flip it over, it will drown)
4. The starter colony may not be queenless
5. The starter colony may not be strong enough
6. The starter colony may not be well fed.

 

[Beefriendly]

3. You may have turned the larva when depositing it in the cell (there are a line of spiracles (or breathing holes) along one side. If you flip it over, it will drown)

Point of order B+.....larvae have spiracles on both their sides through which they can breath. Flipping makes little difference . It won't "drown".

 

[Finman]

If there is no wax and no larvae in the cells, it certainly failed. There are a number of things that could have gone wrong:

1 You may have damaged the larva during transport (rolled or stretched)
2. The larvae may be too old
3. You may have turned the larva when depositing it in the cell (there are a line of spiracles (or breathing holes) along one side. If you flip it over, it will drown)
4. The starter colony may not be queenless
5. The starter colony may not be strong enough
6. The starter colony may not be well fed.

Not a single one in this case.... It means that bees were not willing to rear any queen cells. One method said that keep the colony queenless 3 days and then start. It seems go so what I saw in my one case last summer. I have always started next day, because I had only weekend to do things.

.

 

[Finman]

.
If I am not sure what happened to the larva, I graft two. Bees take extra off.

Funny thing is that often I have tried to graft next day more larvae, but they do not much accept those.

 

[B+.]

Point of order B+.....larvae have spiracles on both their sides through which they can breath. Flipping makes little difference . It won't "drown".

When it is curled up in a small "c" (typical grafting shape) it breathes through the spiracles facing up, flip it over and it will die.
But...we're getting off the point

 

[sean-a]

It is definitely Q-
It is the Q- half of an AS.
The other half has the queen who is laying.
Lots of bees, stores and pollen.
They had put up some Queen Cells which I took down yesterday and replaced with my queen cups with my lavae.

 

[sean-a]

.
If I am not sure what happened to the larva, I graft two. Bees take extra off.

Funny thing is that often I have tried to graft next day more larvae, but they do not much accept those.

Thanks Finny - I might try this next time

 

[Beefriendly]

in a small "c" (typical grafting shape) it breathes through the spiracles facing up, flip it over and it will die.
But...we're getting off the point

Off point maybe. but flip it over and it will breath through the spiracles on the other side.
Don't believe all you read in books B+. Challenge the convention.
Interesting posts on this forume on the same topic at the following link...some relevant posts quoted below.
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/archive/index.php/t-14771.html
"Hivemaker".
24th November 2011, 08:25 PM
I have found that it makes not a jot of difference if the larvae is turned around,or even sinks into the small pool of dilute royal jelly."
"Hivemaker".
24th November 2011, 09:14 PM
As i said,not found it to make a jot of difference,and my average take is 18 out of 20,and i note that they state it makes no difference in the book by Eigil Holm,queen breeding and genetics,how to get better bees,also that experiments have been done that prove this to be so. John Atkinson also found the same,plus he found a small sable brush to be the best grafting tool,and the swiss cranked stainless steel tool to be not suitable for grafting small enough larvae.

You will laugh at one of the quotes ""The conventional thinking is that the spiricles are on the top side and need to be kept clear lest they drown. The President of BIBA was saying so only two weeks ago. "

 

[B+.]

Don't believe all you read in books B+.

Indeed. I wonder what else I've read but never challenged.....must look at that wedding certificate again the next time I'm in trouble with SWMBO
Some interesting videos there

 

[Beefriendly]

....must look at that wedding certificate again the next time I'm in trouble with SWMBO

There is no expiry date. Believe me I've checked.....it's half your pension and assets or life as you currently know it .