Extra queens...what do you do?

[Tremyfro]

Last year....Hive 2 made queen cells. So we took out the frame with the best queen cell on it and made up a Nuc (Hive 3)..she emerged...mated and as far as I know still heads the colony. We destroyed the other queen cells in Hive 2 and gave them new frames to pull out for the queen to lay in and we also put on a super which then became brood and a half. All was well and there were no further queen cells and the hive didn't swarm.
Both these colonies have survived so far.
I felt really bad about destroying the queen cells...although I understood the reasons for doing so.
What I would like to know is ...what do you do if you want to save those queen cells? I don't want to split a colony down into lots of nucs or there will be no honey. Is there a way to save them and pass them on to other Beekeepers without making up lots of nucs?

 

[itma]

Queen cells, as such, aren't that worthwhile, unless they are from particularly good stock.
Well-mated queens are much more useful.


If they are from good stock, QCs may be cut out and immediately transplanted into a pre-prepared Q- colony (sensibly in a nuc or mini-nuc).
Its not a bad idea at all to keep a spare Q or two, (in a nuc, as being able to mostly look after themselves), just in case a substitute should be needed in any of your 'main' colonies.
If your bees are enviably good stock, some of your pals from the association might be interested enough to (given a couple of days notice before you cut out the QCs) bring along a few Q- nucs to receive a QC from you.

 

[Heather]

If from good stock, I put them in an incubator to give me planning time, yet relieving a problem within the hive- that I will sort.

 

[dn170221]

So far i have knocked down, might be tempted this year to fire up an apidea
to get a spare queen but I doubt it! My worry (rightly or wrongly) is that if they are cells from a colony with swarm preparations I would be selecting for "swarminess"

 

[Finman]

My worry (rightly or wrongly) is that if they are cells from a colony with swarm preparations I would be selecting for "swarminess"

Don' worry. They surely swarm when you take daugters from swarming hive.
Swarm makes about 15 queen cells, and you cannot keep them.

 

[masterBK]

There is a good case for using swarm cells if they are constructed by a colony with a queen on her third full season and if the colony made no attempt to swarm in the previous two seasons of her reign (assuming other features of colony also favourable).
Never wise to use swarm cells produced by a colony with a queen in her 1st full season or where a colony produces excessive numbers (eg 30+ ) of queen cells.

 

[jonnybeegood]

I wondered about using queens from a hive that swarmed last year but as last year was a really swarmy year does it still mean that her daughters are still likely to swarm or could it be that it may have just been the exception?

 

[Hivemaker.]

I wondered about using queens from a hive that swarmed last year but as last year was a really swarmy year does it still mean that her daughters are still likely to swarm or could it be that it may have just been the exception?

Produce the queens from strong colonies with older queens which don't try and swarm in a very swarmy year.

 

[jonnybeegood]

Produce the queens from strong colonies with older queens which don't try and swarm in a very swarmy year.

I will in the future i just wonder if one i made from last year are likely to swarm but i guess time will tell & noone can predict it, maybe they wont this year, maybe its down to the years weather just as much as the breeding?

 

[Finman]

does it still mean that her daughters are still likely to swarm or could it be that it may have just been the exception?

Exception is if the hive does not swarm. Strong hives swarm first.

Swarm is bee's habit to make offsprings. To reproduce is very natural to whole nature.

 

[jonnybeegood]

Exception is if the hive does not swarm. Strong hives swarm first.

Swarm is bee's habit to make offsprings. To reproduce is very natural to whole nature.

Yes i found this last year, i had 2 packages, one built up very quickly & swarmed, the other built up slowly & didnt. I cant decide if to replace the queen that swarmed with a Q cell from the one that didnt?

 

[jonnybeegood]

Last year....Hive 2 made queen cells. So we took out the frame with the best queen cell on it and made up a Nuc (Hive 3)..she emerged...mated and as far as I know still heads the colony. We destroyed the other queen cells in Hive 2 and gave them new frames to pull out for the queen to lay in and we also put on a super which then became brood and a half. All was well and there were no further queen cells and the hive didn't swarm.
Both these colonies have survived so far.
I felt really bad about destroying the queen cells...although I understood the reasons for doing so.
What I would like to know is ...what do you do if you want to save those queen cells? I don't want to split a colony down into lots of nucs or there will be no honey. Is there a way to save them and pass them on to other Beekeepers without making up lots of nucs?

You could use just one or two queens to make nucs, feed the bees & get them to draw out foundation, that way you get comb drawn out to use elsewhere, you can then sell the queen to someone once its mated , reunite your bees back to the hive for the nectar flow, that way its win win all round.

 

[Fatbee]

Why feel bad? In nature those queens from those cells are unlikely to have survived (maybe as a cast swarm if not killed off).

One of the many things bees are good at is raising queens and as each colony shows there is no room for more than one!

 

[For want of a better word]

Produce the queens from strong colonies with older queens which don't try and swarm in a very swarmy year.

Selecting from colonies that do not have a swarming tendency is the way forward, therfore taking swarm cells from a colony that has not swarmed for two seasons is a way forward, and in fact selection. Not really answering the OP's post... but good record keeping is essential... yes take swarm cells, in this scenario no problem!

Yeghes da

 

[Tremyfro]

Oooh Goody...lots of replies to read through....also lots of ideas. I like the idea of making nucs and then recombining....leaving a spare mated queen and drawn out comb. Didn't think of that. In fact I was discussing with OH how to do the comb changes this year to remove some old comb from the hives...and realised that the colonies would have to draw out all the new comb as I have no spare at all. Also about how to move Hive 3 ...the big colony into a long hive. There are many ways to use a new queen....perhaps I won't feel so bad if I am able to save some.

 

[For want of a better word]

Also about how to move Hive 3 ...the big colony into a long hive

If the Long Hive has the same dimentions of your existing frames... When it is warmer... take the existing frames and simply put them in the Long Hive, leave out any that do not have brood, no stores or pollen... add new foundationless frames to follow on... and feed ...

Yeghes da

 

[itma]

... Also about how to move Hive 3 ...the big colony into a long hive. ...

Put the long hive where it is going to stay, then move the existing colony over to it -- 3ft 'rule' applied (more if directly backwards, away from the entrance - less if moving 'forwards') and a move only every second or third "good flying day" - no harm in longer stops between steps.
If you have a flat outdoor barrow and a long way to go, the first steps might be to put the hive onto the barrow...
Make a prominent identifying symbol and attach it to the old hive, above the entrance, ASAP. When you finally move the frames across into the new hive, shift the symbol to above the entrance to the new hive, and remove the old hive from (bee) view.




Just to add that having a spare Q from a swarm cell (even from swarmy stock) is a better situation to be in than having no spare Q ...

 

[Finman]

There are many ways to use a new queen....perhaps I won't feel so bad if I am able to save some.

Sure, but queens need allways enough workers that you get a colony over winter. After winter colony needs enough bees to build up.

A beginner is better to buy good queens than take daughters from most swarmy colonies.

 

[Tremyfro]

I can't say whether my bees are swarmy or not. I only started last year. The big colony (Hive1) didn't make any queen cells only queen cups. There were a lot of bees in the colony...well it seemed so to us...but we thought that might just be our inexperience. However, this colony came through the winter with many bees. I can't say how many seams until we open it for the first time this year. This is the colony we want to move into the long hive. The frames will be the same size so will fit ok. What we did conclude was that this colony needs lots of room....I thought to do an A/S in the long hive ...as I hope to get a nuc out of it .....and then combine back with the main colony for the flow....keeping the new queen and some frames back for the nuc.
Hive 2 made queen cells but didn't swarm....luckily with a bit of frame shuffling......this was a nuc we bought last year. We made a small nuc out of some of the frames removed from this hive...put new frames in for them to use and this seemed to help them settle down. It could be that these bees come from swarmy stock....I don't know.
The 3 feet/3mile thing is all very good but the hives have to cross a drive...which is much used by the people who live on it. Therefore the hives are going to have to travel further than 3feet at some point. In fact all 3 hives have to move. We will move Hive 3 first as it is barely more than a nuc and we are will to experiment with it first.
We are going to follow this method...choose a cold day.....shut them up at night when the last flyers are in the hive....move to the new site.....keep them shut in for 48/72 hours...then put loads of foliage in front of the hive....then release them...after a couple of weeks ....start to remove the foliage.
If it works ...then we will move the other two hives in the same way. If it doesn't then we will just have to move them a little bit each day til we get there.

 

[jonnybeegood]

I can't say whether my bees are swarmy or not. I only started last year. The big colony (Hive1) didn't make any queen cells only queen cups. There were a lot of bees in the colony...well it seemed so to us...but we thought that might just be our inexperience. However, this colony came through the winter with many bees. I can't say how many seams until we open it for the first time this year. This is the colony we want to move into the long hive. The frames will be the same size so will fit ok. What we did conclude was that this colony needs lots of room....I thought to do an A/S in the long hive ...as I hope to get a nuc out of it .....and then combine back with the main colony for the flow....keeping the new queen and some frames back for the nuc.
Hive 2 made queen cells but didn't swarm....luckily with a bit of frame shuffling......this was a nuc we bought last year. We made a small nuc out of some of the frames removed from this hive...put new frames in for them to use and this seemed to help them settle down. It could be that these bees come from swarmy stock....I don't know.
The 3 feet/3mile thing is all very good but the hives have to cross a drive...which is much used by the people who live on it. Therefore the hives are going to have to travel further than 3feet at some point. In fact all 3 hives have to move. We will move Hive 3 first as it is barely more than a nuc and we are will to experiment with it first.
We are going to follow this method...choose a cold day.....shut them up at night when the last flyers are in the hive....move to the new site.....keep them shut in for 48/72 hours...then put loads of foliage in front of the hive....then release them...after a couple of weeks ....start to remove the foliage.
If it works ...then we will move the other two hives in the same way. If it doesn't then we will just have to move them a little bit each day til we get there.

You could always ask a local farmer if you could move them on their land somewhere safe for a week or so then move them to their new site , as long as the farms a few mile away, maybe offer a jar of honey?