expand hive this time of year?

[MandF]

Hi, I have a hive which has filled a standard national brood box, as of a couple of weeks ago. I had put on a super, and last week there was a bit of nectar/honey being stored - and although not much space below the QE, no qcs.

I inspected yesterday, super is prob 75% full (all frames have nectar/honey, ones in the middle almost full, no capping anywhere yet), so was thinking this is good, will get a crop this season after all, I will go grab another super and put it on.

Then I went into the brood box, and found the outer brood frame had stores, the rest were full of bias, and I found 3 charged QCs. I would guess the larvae were about 4 days old, 5mm-ish long. At this point I will point out I also saw the queen.

So, I destroyed those cells/removed the larvae, got my second super (with drawn frames) and swapped 3 empties into the first super above the QE, alternating with ones with stores, in the middle.

I am hoping that both adding the super, and adding some space directly above the brood (even though the queen cannot get there to lay) will convince the bees they now have enough space and not want to swarm. I have done this in previous years and it has worked in changing their minds, however in previous years I have been on brood&half when I'd done that, so they had more actual brood space.

If this had happened a month or so ago (brood full) I would have added half brood, but as (I think) egg laying slows down now is this a good idea? If I give them a half for brood now, will that detract from the crop we would otherwise get?

Basic question is, is it advisable to be expanding brood area this time of year, just as the main flow is starting?

Thanks

 

[psafloyd]

If they are preparing to swarm, they probably will swarm until you've convinced them they have.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Check in a few days and a/s - at the end of the season sqish old queen and re-combine if you don't want to make increase

 

[MandF]

Has noone else had luck preventing swarming (due to overcrowding) by adding more space?

If adding a whole empty super for brood is not likely to change their minds then I guess an a/s is the next best option!

 

[Loolabelle1]

Our hive was going through a Bailey change so they had loads of space in the lower box plus all the frames in the top box and they still swarmed.

 

[oliver90owner]

Unless, and probably even then, you give them more brooding space, they will likely go, as you have apparently changed nothing (ie no more room) in the broodbox.

 

[Travelator]

Has noone else had luck preventing swarming (due to overcrowding) by adding more space?

If adding a whole empty super for brood is not likely to change their minds then I guess an a/s is the next best option!

The key word is luck. If you're lucky, you *might* stop them swarming by adding extra space. You would need to keep checking religiously to make sure they aren't making preparations, and there's always a chance that they will hide a queen cell somewhere.

If you do an artificial swarm, you should have the situation more under control. I don't how much your overall honey yield would be affected, but it certainly wouldn't be as bad as losing a swarm.

 

[george]

MandF could you swap round your hive with the nuc you are trying to build up to get a better balance between the two . The flying bees would bolster the nuc more than those from the nuc into the main hive.(That almost makes sense but I am sure you know what I mean ).

Strong flow starting here at the moment so if you were going to add a super to give more space I would think about 2 rather than just one . Lots of extra room needed to process the nectar into honey .
Or if honey is not a priority how about a brood box under to make it a double . Still plenty of time to build up, weather permitting .
G

 

[MandF]

Unless, and probably even then, you give them more brooding space, they will likely go, as you have apparently changed nothing (ie no more room) in the broodbox.

That is correct, however I vaguely remember reading someone advocating this as a swarm preventative technique, plus the house bees wouldnt know it wasnt part of the brood nest, and therefore available for egg laying.

I had the same last summer, when there were physically bees crammed into the hive they would build queen cells which had eggs in, when I created more space by adding super(s) they stopped wanting to swarm.

I agree though that if I still see them building/charging qcs when I look in again tomorrow (probably, or friday) then I will have to do something more drastic. I thought adding a 'half' brood would help, but doing an AS, although not my first choice of action at this stage, has the added benefit of giving us a new queen to use going into winter.

G, I had considered donating 1 or 2 frames of brood to the "nuc", and may still do so, but I wouldnt want to swap them round as you suggest (although I do understand what you meant ) because I am worried about disease in that hive and treating them, so would prefer as little mixing of them as poss at the moment. Donating from the main hive is ok tho obv

What I would prefer not to do is create space (and work) for them by adding foundation for brood, and them wanting to swarm anyway and having to do an AS as well. I think either/or is best, so I think I will go with the AS if I see any more charged qcs.

I could, of course, combine the "new" hive/queen with the nuc rather than back with the main hive for winter, so it also gives me that flexibility.

Seems like Im talking myself into AS

 

[MandF]

I did a search for that idea for preventing swarms, and its called 'checkerboarding' - here is an excerpt from the bush bees website;

--------------------

Checkerboarding aka Nectar Management

Checkerboarding is a technique from Walt Wright that involves interspersing drawn and capped honey OVER the brood nest. It in no way involves the the brood nest itself. If you'd like to know about this technique and a LOT more detail about swarm preparation and what goes on in a hive at any given time in the buildup, I would contact Walt Wright. This is a method that also fools the bees into believing that the time has not yet come to swarm. It works without disturbing the brood nest. Basically it's putting alternating frames of empty drawn comb and capped honey directly ABOVE the brood nest