Evi, Evil Bees Query

[shudderdun]

I have a colony on an out apiary, nearest house 1/4 mile away, not much property per sq mile, I caught them in a bate hive May 2014. They work hard and produce the goods, they have always been bad tempered, but have become worse this season Despite smoking and being as gentle as I can they still want to attack me.
As soon as I open up they are on the defence, up in my face, pinging me and are all over my leather cloves, 20 or so per hand trying to sting me. They let off that pear drop pheromone smell almost straight away, it is so strong I can even taste it in my mouth when working above them. When I walk away they follow me, even at 50 yards they are still there. If I stand still they fly away about 6 ft and come back and keep pinging my hood.
One other important thing I need to mention, on my inspection yesterday there were six QC, (four sealed, but with the amount of bees I'm pretty sure they had not swarmed yet) took them down to two. I have been in this same situation before regarding the QC and they have changed their mind, i.e. On further investigation the QC were torn down.
I am thinking I will just have to go along with what the bees decide,but hope they produce a more gentle Q. Worrying thing is, if they do swarm, where the evil ones will go.
Not sure what else I can do, if I try and re queen they might not let me find the old Q and even if I did they may kill the replacement Q.
Any further suggestions appreciated.

 

[oliver90owner]

Read the ongoing saga of Obee1. All the threads since May - about three!

Discard most of it, apart from the continued advice to requeen, and the methods of finding an elusive queen.

Allowing them to swarm will not, or is unlikely to, solve the problem. Just more nasty genes in the area.

You need to get rid of those nasty genes by culling the queen and the drones. The sooner the better for you and any other beekeeper within a couple miles or more.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Read the ongoing saga of Obee1. All the threads since May - about three!

Discard most of it, apart from the continued advice to requeen, and the methods of finding an elusive queen.

Allowing them to swarm will not, or is unlikely to, solve the problem. Just more nasty genes in the area.

You need to get rid of those nasty genes by culling the queen and the drones. The sooner the better for you and any other beekeeper within a couple miles or more.

Sound advice - you know it makes sense.
You mention your leather gloves - how loaded with sting pheromones are they? Also how long do you go between washes for your suit and veil?
I was asked to look at some bees last year. I got started then the owner joined me clad in a dirty old smock and veil with leather gloves. This caused the bees to go into attack mode. In the end I sent him away until I finished.
The bees were only responding to the chemical signals his clothing carried. Any chance you're in similar circumstances?

 

[Finman]

.
Buy a good mated Queen. That is normal way to handle evil hives.

 

[Chris B]

Cull the queen and ALL queen cells and unite with a neighbour. Nasty bees are likely to reject a new queen. If you want another colony then make a nuc later using gentler bees.

Try using a "bee tobacco" in your smoker on sale at various suppliers. It should calm them a bit more than ordinary smoke in the interim.

 

[Finman]

.
I thought too the joining, but if hive is planning swarming, it draws with it another hive.
AS should be done and then Queen change.

 

[B+.]

The bees were only responding to the chemical signals his clothing carried. Any chance you're in similar circumstances?

I have noticed a similar response to people in those camouflage beesuits. The bees really don't seem to like the dark areas.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

I have noticed a similar response to people in those camouflage beesuits. The bees really don't seem to like the dark areas.

Was reading through with the thought "what colour are the leather gloves?" and saw this. Leather gloves are a terrible idea and the first time I ever handled bees I had beautiful leather RHS gardening gauntlets with BLACK suede wrist parts. The bees went mental and of course with the pheromone that would happen even quicker.

 

[wessexmario]

Given how they react, most of the problem is likely to be you and not the bees. It's also what you can easily change, and straight away.


Wash the bee suit and change the gloves.

ANY pheromone on them will be detected by the bees, just the trace of one sting in the fabric in the glove or your suit and you might as well turn up with flashing lights and alarm bells.

Don't use leather, use natural colour latex gloves... and change them every visit. Although thinner, they also don't breathe so bees will quite happily walk over your hands with latex and they won't even know it's you.

Move slowly when inspecting the hive... especially with your hands and hive tool. If you move s.l..o..w...l...y then you won't draw their attention to you.
Inspecting a hive is a series of pauses, interspersed with slow activity. It should be a gentle relaxed affair, and the pace is determined by the beekeeper, not the bees.
Too often I've seen people rushing and crashing about, and they wonder why they get stung. I don't.

 

[Cussword]

I have noticed a similar response to people in those camouflage beesuits. The bees really don't seem to like the dark areas.

I have a camouflage smock, my white beesuit could frighten the neighbours. I do wash it regularly and don't seem to upset my bees.

 

[Obee1]

Read the ongoing saga of Obee1. All the threads since May - about three!

Discard most of it, apart from the continued advice to requeen, and the methods of finding an elusive queenles.

Thanks RAB but I wasn't aware there is a thread limit.

Shudderdun. Your evil hive sounds very similar to mine. However you have the luxury of a secluded site to sort the problem. Wade in, find that queen - RABs method works - ie place 2 of the brood frames together in the centre of a brood box on a new floor. Shake /brush every single bee into that box - you will be amazed that a huge colony all fit into one box ( I used an empty brood box placed on top as a funnel whilst shaking them.) Whilst all the frames are bee free it is a good time to get rid of drone comb. Place QE, then rest of hive above. Bees soon climb up through QE to nurse brood up there. Walk away - I left mine overnight. Next day carefully remove that QE and part the two frames. queen will be in between those 2 frames amidst some nurse bees and the drones - which you could cull as they are carrying the evil gene.
Then you need to requeen, many methods available - Michael Palmer talks of an easy method using a homemade wire push in introduction cage. Most important is to check for any EQC they may make during your introduction phase.

One tip I learnt dealing with my hive. Have someone else help you as it needs one person on full time smoking duties.. I added tobacco to smoke. i could not believe how much smoke we used but it made a massive difference. Firstly smoke under mesh floor and in entrance. Wait a few minutes. Remove roof then crack between boxes and smoke into crack. Once boxes are apart smoke over the top of frames. As soon as bees start coming back out at the top smoke across top again. Try to stop them getting into a defensive mode. Keep the smoke flowing. I know it's the opposite of how we learnt but it really helps.

Good luck

OBEE

 

[Arfermo]

The gloves I most usually use are the thicker variety of washing up gloves from Sxxnxbxry. Thick enough for the sting to unable to penetrate and very easily washable with a fabric lining. Very cheap and well worth the money. I also use nitrile gloves but not when the bees are in a mood.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Too often I've seen people rushing and crashing about, and they wonder why they get stung. I don't.

So why do you bother wearing a bee suit at all, much more comfortable without one, especially in hot weather.

 

[wessexmario]

So why do you bother wearing a bee suit at all, much more comfortable without one, especially in hot weather.

That implies you might not believe that I have both inspected and moved hives in shorts and a t-shirt. I watch all my hives daily from within arm's reach without bothering with protection. More so now I have transparent covers, it's hard not to resist when I'm in the garden.
Maybe I'm lucky with good natured bees. Maybe it's how I treat them, and act near them. I don't know, all I know is that what I do works for me.

 

[shudderdun]

Good Advice as always ---Thank You All

Thank you ALL for your advice, yes RAB that was my main concern regarding other beekeepers in my area.

To answer some of the questions you asked :-

I used a different clean suit for my out apiary, but am guilty of not washing my BEIGE leather gloves as well as I would like (shrinkage) , I tend to sponge them down with clean warm water, not too wet otherwise they tend to shrink, dry them off and heavily smoke them before use, not good enough I hear you say, I now realise I need to get away from leather.

Thanks also to Obee1 for describing your method, that was going to be my next question before you explained it to me.

I now need to get my act together and get on with it, I think I have a spare Q I can use.

Regards to ALL

 

[Stiffy]

That implies you might not believe that I have both inspected and moved hives in shorts and a t-shirt. I watch all my hives daily from within arm's reach without bothering with protection. More so now I have transparent covers, it's hard not to resist when I'm in the garden.
Maybe I'm lucky with good natured bees. Maybe it's how I treat them, and act near them. I don't know, all I know is that what I do works for me.

I currently have a hive that needs re-queening due to it being bad tempered.
With over 30 hives, this one stands out as the devils spawn and it doesn't matter how gentle I am. As with all the others, I can stand next to them all day long and they don't take a bit of notice but as soon as I lift the roof on this one they try their very best to kill me.
Cant be doing with shxtty bees and just waiting for a virgin to get mated and then this queen is doomed.

I could inspect a lot of mine without a suit but don't as I have seen too many times bees suddenly getting upset and taking their anger out on me.
S

 

[kazmcc]

.
I thought too the joining, but if hive is planning swarming, it draws with it another hive.
AS should be done and then Queen change.

I was going to ask if an immediate AS first would be best, make sure they don't swan off and cause further problems, then requeen and unite once everything has settled down.

 

[wessexmario]

yes, I'll only do it when the weather's really nice and they're happy and busy.

I'm also lucky in that my family doesn't react to bee stings, my dad was a beek for many years and he like me just felt the jab, very rarely getting any swelling at all. That's not to say that a sting in a vital area like throat or eye might still end up being very serious.

Wearing a bee suit is a bit like wearing a seatbelt in a car (ignoring the legal issues) I'd most often be quite happy to drive without a seatbelt, but I always wear one because you just don't know when the extreme end of the risk scale might chance to happen one day, and in the game of life and death it's a chance not worth taking too often, when it's so easy to be safe.

 

[jonnybeegood]

I had a beek tell me at the weekend that a good beekeeper doesnt need to wear gloves, i thought to myself, no, a good beekeeper chooses to wear them not just to help prevent disease but because its sensible. He then proceeded to crash through 3 hives killing bees, putting frames back the wrong way around. What a good beekeeper!

 

[Karsal]

I had a dreadfully aggressive hive so tried a number of things to resolve the stinging of my hands. Even through leather gloves. Got oil of peppermint and dabbed it on a tissue popped it in a bag with my gloves. They left my hands alone when I used the gloves but the bu33ers stung me somewhere else.
Killed the queen and united the hive with a quiet one. All is much better now. I used to be sentimental and look after my queens. Not any more. If aggressive they get the chop.