Endless Supersedure?

[robmort]

I have a problem with one hive continually superseding.
I was left with one small hive over winter after being almost wiped out by EFB last summer. This hive had a queen raised last year from a supersedure.

It started off well but in May produced 4 or 5 QCs which I thought were SS cells. Anyway I split the hive and after a short while the old queen stopped laying and disappeared.
In the other hive the new queen started laying 12 days ago and there is a good area of sealed brood and larvae, but now I notice one sealed QC and 3 or 4 unsealed with larvae! There is plenty of room in the hive and I can't understand why they should supersede already. I suppose I ought to split again to be safe but each time it reduces the hive strength.
What is the best solution?

 

[For want of a better word]

Mark and clip the queen so that you can find her.
If she is laying, break down any queen cells the bees bring on.... so frequent checks 7 day?

Probably ditch that queen line and start with a new nuc ( non imported !) sourced locally.
Chons da

 

[joelsoo]

OK, I am facing with the same problem I thought the hive was honey bound as I extracted the top brood box because it was full of honey.

This colony had a newly mated queen which I thought its happy days for the season, first sign of eggs was 3 weeks ago today.

Today I found about 7 to 8 queen cells, also found this new queen (I marked her last time she was mated about 2 to 3 weeks ago. There were no eggs..

I removed this queen as there is no point to take the gamble and leave her in the hive, in case she swarms off. Nontheless when I thought to leave her to let the new queen(s) supercedure this 3 week mated queen but the risk of her swarming away with half the colony is a risk so I removed her. The thought is I rather have a break in bees produxtion now and any remaining brood laid by her 2 to 3weeks, than to lose half or more bees to a swarm and wreck next month's honey flow..

I hope in 2 to 3 maybe 4 weeks later there will be enough drones in adjacent nucs and hives to let this new emerging queen mate. I was told its likely that this queen may not be mated properly.

I have another nuc next to this hive also the same problem. Mated 2020 queen about 3 weeks ago, I thought happy days. Today's I checked. No eggs. Queen is there, plenty of space, got food, got brood. But this one thank god no queen cells. I suspect maybe this is the gap and hence queen not laying. Nontheless i will check again next weekend hope she's laying again. Of no, its either I unite with another colony, or wait till season is over, I put some eggs from another hive in this nuc and try again...

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[jenkinsbrynmair]

I hope in 2 to 3 maybe 4 weeks later there will be enough drones in adjacent nucs and hives to let this new emerging queen mate. I was told its likely that this queen may not be mated properly.

Who on earth told you that? this time of year there will be plenty of drones in the vicinity for your queen to mate.
Still unsure what exactly you've done:
You found seven QC's - thus assume swarm preparations, why would you think supersedure? exactly how much brood was in this hive, and how much more room for laying?
Have you any idea why she only started laying a few weeks ago- what has she been doing up until now?
You say you removed the queen, but what have you done with her?

 

[joelsoo]

Who on earth told you that? this time of year there will be plenty of drones in the vicinity for your queen to mate.
Still unsure what exactly you've done:
You found seven QC's - thus assume swarm preparations, why would you think supersedure? exactly how much brood was in this hive, and how much more room for laying?
Have you any idea why she only started laying a few weeks ago- what has she been doing up until now?
You say you removed the queen, but what have you done with her?

There are about 6 frames of brood out of 11, there are alot of empty cells without eggs. This hive was requeened and supposedly mated 3 weeks ago as she had been laying fine until last Friday when I first noticed 2 queen cells which I removed and alot of honey bound frames on 2nd brood box which I extracted. Today when I returned the frames to the 2nd brood box position I found the queen cells on the 1st brood box above the floor., Which then I asked the chaps in my association and they said if there is a this season mated queen in there, plenty of income, and she's present, but not laying eggs with space available hence they suggest it's maybe she had not mated well....

Queen took out with some workers and put in a cage, in a box with some fondant for the night, a mate of mine say he's got a queenless nuc so can house her tomorrow to see if she lays again.

Sorry it's my first season so still learning the ropes... And listening around, reading, to learn as much as I can... I seem to always get curved balls from them bees....

 

[Swarm]

Have you done a course? I'm surprised none of your mates asked why you had them in a double brood set up when only on six frames.
Supersedure it ain't.

 

[joelsoo]

Have you done a course? I'm surprised none of your mates asked why you had them in a double brood set up when only on six frames.

Supersedure it ain't.

Yeah did a course last year.

This colony was originally from an overwintering nuc with about 3 frames of bees. In early March the brood expanded I then housed in full hive. April onwards I demareed, hence the introduction of 2nd brood box. When demareeing as its my first season I don't have empty drawn frames so I moved honey frames and frames with foundations down to bottom brood box, and moved brood up to the top. I demareed this way for a few weeks and greenhorn error did not realised when putting frames back in, I should put brood in middle and honey on the sides, ended subconsciously putting honey frames all ofer the bottom brood box. Slowly over time more and more frames started getting honey bound.... I stopped demareeing when one week in about early/mid May, after discovering i missed a couple of QCs and virgin queen had hatched somewhere, and old queen can't be found. That's when I put 2bbrood boxes together,stopped demareeing and left the colony on its own in hope to waited it out for virgin queen to be mated which 3 weeks ago I saw first sign of eggs.... However this week the new queen seem to have stopped laying, and I spotted the multiple queen cells...

That's the whole story in brief for this hive....

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[drex]

Like JBM I am having difficulty following exactly what is going on. You are new to beekeeping, but seem to be doing a fair bit of quite ambitious manipulation. I admire your enthusiasm and was the same when I started. However I would suggest a bit less intervention for a while and let the bees sort themselves out.
Some of my bees are doing little at the moment.
I believe the bees biggest enemy is the beekeeper, until he/ she learns to read and listen to the bees.

 

[ericbeaumont]

You found seven QC's - thus assume swarm preparations, why would you think supersedure?

Supersedure it ain't.

Joel,

Supersedure is accepted generally to be 3 QCs or fewer; in the season bees are just as likely to swarm as supersede on supersedure QCs, so at the very least mark and clip your queens. This supersedure info. will be useful.

Your bees are or were in swarm mode; like JBM, I cannot really follow your actions (but the brain is v tired from a long day yesterday) but I suggest that a novice beekeeper is best off doing a straightforward AS in response to swarming.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I have a problem with one hive continually superseding.
I was left with one small hive over winter after being almost wiped out by EFB last summer. This hive had a queen raised last year from a supersedure.

It started off well but in May produced 4 or 5 QCs which I thought were SS cells. Anyway I split the hive and after a short while the old queen stopped laying and disappeared.
In the other hive the new queen started laying 12 days ago and there is a good area of sealed brood and larvae, but now I notice one sealed QC and 3 or 4 unsealed with larvae! There is plenty of room in the hive and I can't understand why they should supersede already. I suppose I ought to split again to be safe but each time it reduces the hive strength.
What is the best solution?

Sotty OP - looks like your original question got lost in the fug when the post got hijacked, at least now things aren't quite so confused (in my mind anyway ).
So what has happened to the side of the split with the old queen?
As for the side with the new queen - if there are still eggs and larvae I would tear down all the QC's and inspect in six days, it may be just the workers being a bit jittery with their newly mated queen.

 

[joelsoo]

So sorry OP didn't mean to hijack, Nontheless keep us updated, for mine I had let them have the few QCs to move on and removed queen for now, let nature take its course.

If it's a mistake I have to learn from it as it's down to being a newbie/greenhorn to beekeeping.

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[robmort]

Seems I maligned my bees this time as, a couple of inspections later, I see that the new queen has gone missing. So there's a lot of capped brood but no eggs or young brood. Hence the 5 or so emergency cells.
Do I just leave them or choose the best cell/cells?
I would like to merge this hive with another but is this a good time?

 

[Swarm]

Break down the cells and unite over newspaper.