Empty supers

[Simon a beekeeper]

I inspected my hives on Monday, one BB had lots of bees and brood on almost all frames but one with foundation not drawn out, I've never spotted the queen in this hive. The other hive not so many bees brood on about 7 frames, 3 drawn frames are empty but looking a bit damp and inside of BB had moisture on it. Saw the queen as she is yellow spot (a swarm caught last year) A super on each hive but neither super has any stores, both have 3 drawn frames the rest are foundation, one just beginning to be drawn. Are the empty supers because the bees haven't got enough forage nearby, poor weather conditions etc? The supers were put on at the end of April.They are in a woodland clearing and produced some honey for me last year.
Thoughts please.

 

[madasafish]

Weather
Hives not strong enough
Feed second hive and remove super : - 3 empty frames.. and feed two liters of 1:1 sugar water to assist them in building up.

First hive needs to draw out empty frame.. I would remove super, Is it heavy? Are there any stores? They could be near starvation... If no stores, feed.

And when weather improves, super First at once and remove feed when empty frame drawn.

 

[Wilco]

It's been a poor year. They'll draw them when they have enough bees AND a flow. I'm really hoping for a better summer than last year. I suspect when the main flow comes it will be hard and fast. Length of it will depend on the weather.

Apparently there's an old adage 'bees in a wood never do any good' (read in Manley's 'Honey Farming'. Anyone got experience to contradict that?

 

[Mint Bee]

I have 2 apiaries in woodland, but both get a fair bit of sun of them for part of the day, rather than being in the dark depths of woodland. When there is forage about, and the weather to use it, they pile on the honey like other apiaries. I cant say I've noticed any specific problems with the locations, other than I can't get right upto hives, so all moving is done with a sack barrow

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Apparently there's an old adage 'bees in a wood never do any good' (read in Manley's 'Honey Farming'. Anyone got experience to contradict that?

I have three apiaries tucked under trees, two get shaded most of the day, one gets the sun late afternoon, They have always performed as well as the others - sometimes better.

 

[Simon a beekeeper]

Thanks for comments, I think I might feed the weaker hive and take off the super as Madasafish recommends. Any reason for not doing this?

 

[Erichalfbee]

….

 

[JamezF]

Apparently there's an old adage 'bees in a wood never do any good' (read in Manley's 'Honey Farming'. Anyone got experience to contradict that?

Sounds so vague as to be meaningless to me.

James

 

[Wilco]

@jenkinsbrynmair I think it's meaning in the middle of a wood rather than under some trees. I've got hives under the edge of some woodland which produce ok but not deep into the woods.

 

[fian]

I would not remove the supers since the bees begin to rise and when the brood of the 7/9 squares is born, those bees need space for their activity.
Only food if the forecast of rain or cold is imminent and will last more than 4 days.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

It's been a poor year. They'll draw them when they have enough bees AND a flow. I'm really hoping for a better summer than last year. I suspect when the main flow comes it will be hard and fast. Length of it will depend on the weather.

Apparently there's an old adage 'bees in a wood never do any good' (read in Manley's 'Honey Farming'. Anyone got experience to contradict that?

BABKA apiary is on the edge of a wood.just tucked under the Southern edge of the canopy where it is buffered from strong winds but the sun can peep in.
I can see an argument about being IN a dense wood where lack of sunlight could be a factor and the size of the wood meaning forage involves long flights but how many woods in the UK are big enough and dense enough to cause problems?

 

[Antipodes]

BABKA apiary is on the edge of a wood.just tucked under the Southern edge of the canopy where it is buffered from strong winds but the sun can peep in.
I can see an argument about being IN a dense wood where lack of sunlight could be a factor and the size of the wood meaning forage involves long flights but how many woods in the UK are big enough and dense enough to cause problems?

I agree GJ. I reckon it must depend on the wood itself too. Here, trees are the main nectar source, and if you take your bees right into the middle of the wood (we call it a forest) with huge towering trees all around, flows are fabulous..... if the woods (forest) trees are flowering. It doesn't matter about shade or anything. If the woods in the UK are not producing nectar in themselves, then it's a long way for the bees to get to your brambles and clover which give you honey over there and then there may be a problem. Does that sound right?

 

[Antipodes]

I inspected my hives on Monday, one BB had lots of bees and brood on almost all frames but one with foundation not drawn out, I've never spotted the queen in this hive. The other hive not so many bees brood on about 7 frames, 3 drawn frames are empty but looking a bit damp and inside of BB had moisture on it. Saw the queen as she is yellow spot (a swarm caught last year) A super on each hive but neither super has any stores, both have 3 drawn frames the rest are foundation, one just beginning to be drawn. Are the empty supers because the bees haven't got enough forage nearby, poor weather conditions etc? The supers were put on at the end of April.They are in a woodland clearing and produced some honey for me last year.
Thoughts please.

From what you're saying Simon, I reckon the colonies were probably not strong enough this year (so far) to get you honey. Dampness on frames and the inside of a brood box is generally a sign for me of a colony a slopping around in oversized boots and generally not with large (enough) numbers of bees to collect a surplus. The first hive may well come good for your next flow. Is that brambles and then clover?

 

[ericbeaumont]

brood on almost all frames but one with foundation not drawn out

Put it into the middle of the brood nest (a frame a week).

never spotted the queen in this hive ... Saw the queen as she is yellow spot

Don't bother looking for queens; satisfy yourself that you can see BIAS.

neither super has any stores

Take them off. You have weaker colonies than usual at this time of year, and the empty supers will hamper effective thermo-regulation and thus reduce comb and brood production.

empty supers because the bees haven't got enough forage nearby, poor weather conditions?

Most likely, though sub-par queen performance will also limit a workforce, defer comb production and reduce foraging. Has the wet weather in your parts prevented much flying?

You don't mention stores: although the supers are empty, what is in the BBs? Two fullish frames between weekly checks will prevent starvation.

produced some honey for me last year

Each season is different: colony performance is related directly to weather suitable to forage, queen performance and management of the kit by the beekeeper.

 

[Simon a beekeeper]

There are some stores in the weaker BB but I went yesterday to put on a contact feeder and removed the super.
My bees are on the edge of a glade in a mixed woodland and get good sunlight. It was a bit warmer yesterday with lots of bees flying.
Appreciate all comments, thanks.

 

[ericbeaumont]

warmer yesterday with lots of bees flying

Blackberry opening?

 

[Simon a beekeeper]

Blackberries just coming into flower next few days

 

[Newbeeneil]

@jenkinsbrynmair I think it's meaning in the middle of a wood rather than under some trees. I've got hives under the edge of some woodland which produce ok but not deep into the woods.

I have 1 apiary in a heavily shaded group of trees where the hives never get direct sunlight( they were moved there because a neighbour objected to bees in his garden - don’t ask!)
The 2 hives have 7 supers between them at the moment and have consistently done better than most of my others.
I’m convinced it makes little or no difference.