Dumping a Laying Worker Hive

[BernardBlack]

Any advice on dumping the bees in the hive?

And on cleaning the hive parts and frames to get ready for the next lot? Or is it even worth using frames again?

 

[ShinySideUp]

Why, what's wrong with the bees?

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Why, what's wrong with the bees?

Per the heading to the thread the hive is queenless and has laying workers which makes introduction of a new queen difficult and is often a waste of good queens (should be otherwise healthy). The original poster is planning to dump (shake out) the bees and remove the now empty hive from the apiary. The bees will beg their way into nearby hives. The laying workers may or may not be permitted entry but if they are the queen pheromones in the new home will suppress their ovaries.
I'd suggest several metres from the other hives so one particular hive guard bees aren't inundated with beggars.
Regarding the cleaning of the hive and parts I'd scrape and scorch if wood or use hypochlorite if poly. If the hive is otherwise healthy any frames of stores could be used to feed nucs etc but I'd melt out any with brood.
EDIT To the OP you're only showing one hive in your group details - have you increased your numbers?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Smoke bees really well and leave for 10 minutes.
Shake every bee onto the grass ten feet away at least but doesn't have to be much more.
Take hive away and clean .....
Save the stores

BUT you can't really shake the bees out if you have only one other hive

 

[BernardBlack]

Per the heading to the thread the hive is queenless and has laying workers which makes introduction of a new queen difficult and is often a waste of good queens (should be otherwise healthy). The original poster is planning to dump (shake out) the bees and remove the now empty hive from the apiary. The bees will beg their way into nearby hives. The laying workers may or may not be permitted entry but if they are the queen pheromones in the new home will suppress their ovaries.
I'd suggest several metres from the other hives so one particular hive guard bees aren't inundated with beggars.
Regarding the cleaning of the hive and parts I'd scrape and scorch if wood or use hypochlorite if poly. If the hive is otherwise healthy any frames of stores could be used to feed nucs etc but I'd melt out any with brood.
EDIT To the OP you're only showing one hive in your group details - have you increased your numbers?

This laying worker colony was my only hive.

 

[Erichalfbee]

This laying worker colony was my only hive.

Oh I see
I couldn't just throw them away like that
They are trying desperately to put their genes out into the world in the drones the laying workers will produce.
I would let them dwindle with a purpose rather than tip them out to die.

 

[theeggman]

If the OP gained a frame of eggs and brood from elsewhere would they create Q cells? Just a thought as a possible ladder out of the hole the OP's in.

 

[pargyle]

Oh I see
I couldn't just throw them away like that
They are trying desperately to put their genes out into the world in the drones the laying workers will produce.
I would let them dwindle with a purpose rather than tip them out to die.

Yes ... about the only likely option but ... on a good flying day when there are clearly lots of foragers out you could move the laying worker hive to somewhere well away from it's existing location - the foraging bees will then fly out but return to the hives original site - with lots of pollen or nectar - if your other hive is adjacent to where the laying worker hive was they will beg their way into that hive and increase the colony size. Your laying worker hive will deplete in numbers but it's going to do that anyway.

If you can beg a laying queen from anyone who is replacing one for any reason or has a spare they don't want you could put what's left of the laying worker hive into a Nuc, make sure there is a nice frame of empty comb in there and some stores and introduce the 'new' queen. Odds are that it won't work but as long as you are using a 'free' queen rather than a bought in one it might save the colony. Has to be a laying queen though ...

 

[pargyle]

If the OP gained a frame of eggs and brood from elsewhere would they create Q cells? Just a thought as a possible ladder out of the hole the OP's in.

It doesn't usually work when there are laying workers in the hive - they seem to think they have a queen and don't bother building queen cells - see above post for further option.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes ... about the only likely option but ... on a good flying day when there are clearly lots of foragers out you could move the laying worker hive to somewhere well away from it's existing location - the foraging bees will then fly out but return to the hives original site - with lots of pollen or nectar - if your other hive is adjacent to where the laying worker hive was they will beg their way into that hive and increase the colony size. Your laying worker hive will deplete in numbers but it's going to do that anyway.

If you can beg a laying queen from anyone who is replacing one for any reason or has a spare they don't want you could put what's left of the laying worker hive into a Nuc, make sure there is a nice frame of empty comb in there and some stores and introduce the 'new' queen. Odds are that it won't work but as long as you are using a 'free' queen rather than a bought in one it might save the colony. Has to be a laying queen though ...

Chap has only that one hive though

 

[Erichalfbee]

It's pertinent as this is the beginners' section that a laying Queen is not one posted in a cage but one lifted straight out of a hive where she is actively laying

 

[BernardBlack]

With laying workers, there's only a small window of opportunity for a new queen introduction available. After that, it becomes impossible. That's what I heard anyway.

 

[pargyle]

It's pertinent as this is the beginners' section that a laying worker is not one posted in a cage but one lifted straight out of a hive where she is actively laying

Laying QUEEN ... yes, not a bought in one ... one lifted from a hive where she is laying. A good network of other beekeepers locally comes into its own in circumstances like this ... I should have made it clear.

I think, unless the OP has some means of laying his hands on another queen it's a lost cause for the colony and he is just in to damage limitation I'm afraid.

 

[pargyle]

Chap has only that one hive though

Ahhhh ... Just realised ... ONLY ONE COLONY and that's the one with laying workers ... nothing that can be done without a second colony ... have a check round locally for anyone with spare colonies to sell or an overwintered Nuc...

 

[pargyle]

With laying workers, there's only a small window of opportunity for a new queen introduction available. After that, it becomes impossible. That's what I heard anyway.

Yes ... generally that's the case ... the only chance is a laying queen as above and even that's not guaranteed ... put it down to experience and this season aim for two colonies ...

 

[Erichalfbee]

Laying QUEEN ... yes, not a bought in one ... one lifted from a hive where she is laying. A good network of other beekeepers locally comes into its own in circumstances like this ... I should have made it clear.

I think, unless the OP has some means of laying his hands on another queen it's a lost cause for the colony and he is just in to damage limitation I'm afraid.

Oooops changed it. Thanks

 

[Gilberdyke John]

This laying worker colony was my only hive.

Sometimes you have to accept the inevitable. Nature doesn't take prisoners

 

[JC47]

I've had a similar problem but was not sure, some brood seemed like a DLQ and some a drone laying worker. Having two hives it is not a problem.
I was advised to dump the Bees in a hedge and let them get on with it.
Because I had two hives I smoked the hive for some time but made an effort to smoke between the frames from both ends. Left the hive for about 10 mins. a coffee break, and then shook the Bees out.
I placed a ramp in front of my second hive and whilst I smoked the Bees constantly my Wife shook the Bees off the frames. They marched into the second hive as expected of a swarm.
Next day there were only a few dead Bees on the ramp.
I considered this a good result for a beginner.
I would not have saved these worker Bees but to the good advice from this Forum.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I've had a similar problem but was not sure, some brood seemed like a DLQ and some a drone laying worker. Having two hives it is not a problem.
I was advised to dump the Bees in a hedge and let them get on with it.
Because I had two hives I smoked the hive for some time but made an effort to smoke between the frames from both ends. Left the hive for about 10 mins. a coffee break, and then shook the Bees out.
I placed a ramp in front of my second hive and whilst I smoked the Bees constantly my Wife shook the Bees off the frames. They marched into the second hive as expected of a swarm.
Next day there were only a few dead Bees on the ramp.
I considered this a good result for a beginner.
I would not have saved these worker Bees but to the good advice from this Forum.

Heavens...I think that went well. I would never have considered that.

 

[pargyle]

Heavens...I think that went well. I would never have considered that.

Nor me ....Just goes to show ... flying in the face of all the conventional advice ... either they got lucky or here's another trick worth trying !! We may never know ...