Drone chalkbrood

[Rory Fields]

Hi, not a massive problem I grant you, but having been plagued by huge amounts of chalkbrood in my first few years, I've slowly bought and bred from stock that remain asymptomatic- however, even those this year show some chalkbrood, though only in drone comb - thinking back, this seems to be something of a trend - does anyone know why it's so virulent in drone brood even when there's not a single cell of it in the workers? Can't just be hygienic behaviour as brood pattern is perfect in said hives so eggs all of same age. Thanks everyone.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Hi, not a massive problem I grant you, but having been plagued by huge amounts of chalkbrood in my first few years, I've slowly bought and bred from stock that remain asymptomatic- however, even those this year show some chalkbrood, though only in drone comb - thinking back, this seems to be something of a trend - does anyone know why it's so virulent in drone brood even when there's not a single cell of it in the workers? Can't just be hygienic behaviour as brood pattern is perfect in said hives so eggs all of same age. Thanks everyone.

I wonder if it develops in drone brood because they take longer to emerge.

 

[Erichalfbee]

does anyone know why it's so virulent in drone brood

Is the drone brood at the periphery of the nest?

 

[Curly green finger's]

When you say periphery do you mean along the perimeter? Like above the frames bottom etc?

 

[Erichalfbee]

When you say periphery do you mean along the perimeter? Like above the frames bottom etc?

The outer limits

 

[Curly green finger's]

The outer limits

Aye what are your thoughts?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Aye what are your thoughts?

Chalk brood is caused by a fungus but can be exacerbated by stress. What sort of stress could brood at the outer limits of the brood nest be subjected to?

 

[Michael Palmer]

Chalkbrood persists due to faulty genetics. Period. No amount of sunshine or ventilation, or any other manipulation will rid of a colony of their chalkbrood...permanently. Now, the frozen brood assay is the answer. You identify the colonies that are the most hygienic...something over 95% for removing freeze killed brood within 24 hours. If you would do that, or purchase your queens from a breeder who does, your chalk will be gone.
May 15 was my 50th year in the bees. I've learned so much during all that time. Believe me when I tell you the cure for chalkbrood is so simple. If your queen breeder refuses to use the freeze brood assay, move on.

 

[blackcloud]

Can you elaborate on that-surely the spores persist?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Chalkbrood persists due to faulty genetics.

Yes
The only Chalk I have ever had was in a colony of black bees from an Irish Queen

 

[Curly green finger's]

Same here

 

[Ian123]

Can you elaborate on that-surely the spores persist?

As Michael says the simple solution is a Queen that’s not susceptible to Chalk brood. Any spores persisting are an irrelevance.

 

[Michael Palmer]

Can you elaborate on that-surely the spores persist?

An hygienic colony will remove any chalk mummies before they become infective.

 

[blackcloud]

As above.
Frozen assay.
Can you elaborate on that please

 

[Rory Fields]

Chalkbrood persists due to faulty genetics. Period. No amount of sunshine or ventilation, or any other manipulation will rid of a colony of their chalkbrood...permanently. Now, the frozen brood assay is the answer. You identify the colonies that are the most hygienic...something over 95% for removing freeze killed brood within 24 hours. If you would do that, or purchase your queens from a breeder who does, your chalk will be gone.
May 15 was my 50th year in the bees. I've learned so much during all that time. Believe me when I tell you the cure for chalkbrood is so simple. If your queen breeder refuses to use the freeze brood assay, move on.

Bloody hell, THE Mike Palmer of St Albans, Vermont!? What an honour! Huge fan via YouTube and Steve Donohoe's book Interviews with Beekeepers. Not sure I've that great a control over the genetics of my bought queen's tbh, I'm v much a sideliner running only 70 hives currently but my job got given away whilst I was undergoing ECT so I figured I'm not brilliant at beekeeping but I'm alright and I love all parts of working with them and enjoy hard work outdoors so planning on scaling up. The drone brood isn't in the periphery in my hives as I choose my most hygienic and well-tempered colonies and give them drone foundation to draw, or starter strips from which they'll preferentially make drone comb in spring. My worst two third colonies get their drone brood destroyed and checked for vartoa levels, though the local beekeeper association has a retired geneticist who says we shouldn't end any breeding lines as each potentially has desirable attributes - but I'm afraid my comprehension of genetics ends at the haploid and diploid drone stage - beyond that I'm not bright enough to grasp the meaning. Chalkbrood is just bloody annoying, I try to keep my breeder colonies expecially as stress free as possible- good position, excellent poly hives, plentiful and varietally rich nectar and pollen and I handle them as gently as I can and wash my gloves and hive tool between hives in soda and bleach, different hive tool for each apiary. If anyone knows if any UK bred or available for UK chalkbrood resistant strains I'd be very interested- happy with my bees on the whole otherwise, cheers, Ror

 

[Ian123]

An hygienic colony will remove any chalk mummies before they become infective.

But you don’t just want a colony that removes them. You want a colony that doesn’t suffer from it at all.

 

[Rory Fields]

As Michael says the simple solution is a Queen that’s not susceptible to Chalk brood. Any spores persisting are an irrelevance.

I fear that the original chalkbrood that was endemic has built up in equipment and hives and robbing, undesirable rogue drones and all the sundry uncontrollable ways, to the point that 'clean' queens I buy in or breed for, become susceptible within a year - even if only in drone brood as per my original post - seems odd that they're less hygienic with drone brood

 

[Ian123]

Bloody hell, THE Mike Palmer of St Albans, Vermont!? What an honour! Huge fan via YouTube and Steve Donohoe's book Interviews with Beekeepers. Not sure I've that great a control over the genetics of my bought queen's tbh, I'm v much a sideliner running only 70 hives currently but my job got given away whilst I was undergoing ECT so I figured I'm not brilliant at beekeeping but I'm alright and I love all parts of working with them and enjoy hard work outdoors so planning on scaling up. The drone brood isn't in the periphery in my hives as I choose my most hygienic and well-tempered colonies and give them drone foundation to draw, or starter strips from which they'll preferentially make drone comb in spring. My worst two third colonies get their drone brood destroyed and checked for vartoa levels, though the local beekeeper association has a retired geneticist who says we shouldn't end any breeding lines as each potentially has desirable attributes - but I'm afraid my comprehension of genetics ends at the haploid and diploid drone stage - beyond that I'm not bright enough to grasp the meaning. Chalkbrood is just bloody annoying, I try to keep my breeder colonies expecially as stress free as possible- good position, excellent poly hives, plentiful and varietally rich nectar and pollen and I handle them as gently as I can and wash my gloves and hive tool between hives in soda and bleach, different hive tool for each apiary. If anyone knows if any UK bred or available for UK chalkbrood resistant strains I'd be very interested- happy with my bees on the whole otherwise, cheers, Ror

Your handling will not cause chalkbrood pick any queen from the main suppliers advertising above and you shouldn’t get chalkbrood!

 

[Rory Fields]

But you don’t just want a colony that removes them. You want a colony that doesn’t suffer from it at all.

It's obviously always going to be present, but I'm aiming for it at asymptomatic levels, so the pathogen load never crosses the threshold that it becomes manifest visually

 

[Rory Fields]

Your handling will not cause chalkbrood pick any queen from the main suppliers advertising above and you shouldn’t get chalkbrood!

My handling certainly COULD contribute to the build up as I understand it, no? I've bought queen's before and they've been hit and miss - am thinking I'd try some Jolanta queens from Denrosa this year as heather is my main crop and I know it's Murray's too