drawing frames

[Cuckmere couple]

i seem to notice that bees are much faster to draw comb at the start of a flow than mid/towards the end

important because, if i have a choice of a super of foundation versus comb, i should use foundation earlier and comb later

i think we are mid flow here now and a couple of weeks ago they were drawing and filling everything in brood boxes and supers...now i have put supers with foundation on some which are doing well and they arent really drawing it, but i put comb on and they fill it

do more experienced folk notice the same pattern?

i know it makes sense and the obvious thing is the flow is diminishing, but, theyre still piling it in to brood frames etc and reluctant to draw (it seems)

 

[Boston Bees]

We are past the longest day.

Bees are thinking about storing now, not building new comb.

 

[Ian123]

We are past the longest day.

Bees are thinking about storing now, not building new comb.

Really I get comb drawn well into the late Autumn.

 

[W0otz]

We are past the longest day.

Bees are thinking about storing now, not building new comb.

But they need somewhere to store it, so they'll build comb if needed.

 

[Boston Bees]

Really I get comb drawn well into the late Autumn.

Sure, you can force all sorts of behaviour, especially if you feed, but naturally, from around now on, they'll start preferring to fill the comb they have - especially if the hive is already more than big enough for winter (i.e. a brood and a super), so it's hardly surprising that the OP is seeing some boxes of foundation neglected.

 

[simonwig]

See @Black Mountain Honey video with a different view.

Simon

 

[Boston Bees]

See @Black Mountain Honey video with a different view.

Simon

Same view really

As BMH says, you can force bees to draw foundation by putting it in the middle of the nest, and pumping syrup into them, and I am sure that approach has merit. But that's not what the OP is asking.

 

[magor]

But they need somewhere to store it, so they'll build comb if needed.

if they can ,if ve been fed and gained tissue ,pollen flow is on parallel to nectar (or patties?) , nectar alone is just energy drink not them food

if they need they ll backfilling , as flow goes on, heavier, more and more bees ll foraging and the more foragers less nursing , building..........

jep you can draw combs in autumn due to there be lot of fat bodies but you weakening your winter bees with it

 

[elainemary]

if they can ,if ve been fed and gained tissue ,pollen flow is on parallel to nectar (or patties?) , nectar alone is just energy drink not them food

if they need they ll backfilling , as flow goes on, heavier, more and more bees ll foraging and the more foragers less nursing , building..........

jep you can draw combs in autumn due to there be lot of fat bodies but you weakening your winter bees with it

V good point - I hadn’t thought about that connection before - the oenocytes in the fat bodies that make the wax cells that are transported to the wax glands. Guess it depends how many frames you try to draw on autumn feed, perhaps a couple would be ok & wouldn’t make a huge ‘drag’ on the fat bodies in the winter bees….?

 

[Ian123]

V good point - I hadn’t thought about that connection before - the oenocytes in the fat bodies that make the wax cells that are transported to the wax glands. Guess it depends how many frames you try to draw on autumn feed, perhaps a couple would be ok & wouldn’t make a huge ‘drag’ on the fat bodies in the winter bees….?

If your getting frames drawn in the middle of the brood box most will get laid in and produce more young bees for Winter!!! Don’t worry about the ones drawing the wax!!

 

[magor]

Guess it depends how many frames you try to draw on autumn feed, perhaps a couple would be ok & wouldn’t make a huge ‘drag’ on the fat bodies in the winter bees….?

jep may couples wont harm, depends colony's strength, pollen flow insert or your feed(syrup+patties) and as above post said you may and produce more bees for winter but then ll those young bees be able transform in diutinus bees or no , will be there enough pollen to be fed for that or no if no then sure in my eyes its no good but if yes then perhaps that means you ve transpose winter bees birth aback(same happnes when requeen on autumn?) and that may complicates things with summer treat(when and what) and winter also treat after(if threat, i dont ..) with next spring growth or flow..........

personal am no sure i d like to be laid those frames, in my climate i ve autmn pollen flow october/november but i do no open broodnest for larger winter colonies and sure not in the way rift it with undraw/empty comb frame(my way open nest when temp start warms is pull capped brood in middle pushin oppenbrood to the edges on pollen frames or if rift it then that d be a pollen frame).............anyway my theory is nurse/feed winter bees(syrup feed for winter stores+small patties for fat bodies gain and also late winter patties feed also for same reason) and exploit/manage summer bees(harvest/splits/build combs/trap combs treat/) and further i believe that winter bees are not just those in winter but also appear in swarms and in nucs made with QC and capped brood.........

but i dunno maybe in yor climate, with winters last more and with no such dry summers as here, a different approach required ,or, and no, really dunno and thats the reason i try avoid post here in forum about manipulations and such stuffs co you kno its not that simple with bees and what you do now affects future and all the year General ''plan'' to the extent that bees,plants,weather allows a plan

 

[elainemary]

jep may couples wont harm, depends colony's strength, pollen flow insert or your feed(syrup+patties) and as above post said you may and produce more bees for winter but then ll those young bees be able transform in diutinus bees or no , will be there enough pollen to be fed for that or no if no then sure in my eyes its no good but if yes then perhaps that means you ve transpose winter bees birth aback(same happnes when requeen on autumn?) and that may complicates things with summer treat(when and what) and winter also treat after(if threat, i dont ..) with next spring growth or flow..........

personal am no sure i d like to be laid those frames, in my climate i ve autmn pollen flow october/november but i do no open broodnest for larger winter colonies and sure not in the way rift it with undraw/empty comb frame(my way open nest when temp start warms is pull capped brood in middle pushin oppenbrood to the edges on pollen frames or if rift it then that d be a pollen frame).............anyway my theory is nurse/feed winter bees(syrup feed for winter stores+small patties for fat bodies gain and also late winter patties feed also for same reason) and exploit/manage summer bees(harvest/splits/build combs/trap combs treat/) and further i believe that winter bees are not just those in winter but also appear in swarms and in nucs made with QC and capped brood.........

but i dunno maybe in yor climate, with winters last more and with no such dry summers as here, a different approach required ,or, and no, really dunno and thats the reason i try avoid post here in forum about manipulations and such stuffs co you kno its not that simple with bees and what you do now affects future and all the year General ''plan'' to the extent that bees,plants,weather allows a plan

Yes agree we’ve got v different climates but it’s still good to have you on here contributing. You have a lot of knowledge and it’s good that you share it, whether it’s directly relevant to our bees or not.
Some definitely is. I enjoy reading your posts.

 

[magor]

thank you, i feel bit orange now

well its not my knowledge but i like follow and learn bees through them nutrition and them insticts and read/watch as much as can for that taking parts from many people methods that suit my philosophy,there are couple of years now(when i met randy oliver's page and all the references from his articles, he is amazing) that i realized nutrition and nurse bees are the most important factors for me and dive into all those papers/books and still do, never ends......while i believe my poor english level holds me back/delaying me at the same time those pauses do to understand what ve read give me the same time to think deeper about it and assimilate it

for the thread when i want draw combs (or and take honey sometimes) i ussually kinda do what mr palmer talks about(swarm/shookswarm insticts) in this video

 

[elainemary]

thank you, i feel bit orange now

well its not my knowledge but i like follow and learn bees through them nutrition and them insticts and read/watch as much as can for that taking parts from many people methods that suit my philosophy,there are couple of years now(when i met randy oliver's page and all the references from his articles, he is amazing) that i realized nutrition and nurse bees are the most important factors for me and dive into all those papers/books and still do, never ends......while i believe my poor english level holds me back/delaying me at the same time those pauses do to understand what ve read give me the same time to think deeper about it and assimilate it

for the thread when i want draw combs (or and take honey sometimes) i ussually kinda do what mr palmer talks about(swarm/shookswarm insticts) in this video

I understand you perfectly. Your English is far better than our Greek! Having travelled to a few places in Greece and talked to beekeepers it’s tough keeping bees there in the summer, so hot and dry and I can understand why you are so focussed on pollen and nutrition. I have the opposite challenge - too much pollen (have some real hoarders) and in huge variety and not enough sun!