Double Brood

[luckydunny]

My first year and need wintering advice please...
I have a very strong colony on a National Brood box and have just taken 3 supers off.
I really want to go to double brood on this hive but have no drawn foundation available.
An association member said to put a one super back under Brood box, after extraction and go to Brood and a half, (to provide enough room for bees and queen to lay and give a strong start to next spring.)
How would I then move onto double brood, when or is there another way?

 

[newportbuzz]

i gave a strong colony a brood box to draw 4 days ago and feed strongly they have since drawn 6 frames out i have moved the drawn ones to the side and they are now starting on the undrawn ones.

i was advised not to bother going double brood unless you want to split the hive next year for nucs/increase. (which i do)

i have since given the other two middling strong colonys brood boxes to draw and hope for similar results. And will be doing the same with the hive from the heather next week.

btw a full brood box is heavy
and i am running amm bees so double brood is really overkill.
hope this helps

 

[drstitson]

was this a nuc purchased this year?

"I have a very strong colony on a National Brood box"

if very strong you'd've been forced into B+1/2 or 2B this season!!!!!


seriously -

wintering on B+1/2 stores is a separate issue, not an intermediate point IMHO.

next season - when colony going really well in spring add Box and foundation instead of super.
or
combine the move to 2B with A/S and 2 queen system - strong colony in 2 boxes is the result (plus a spare queen in a nuc).

 

[JamezF]

I have some colonies on a single brood, some on brood-and-a-half and some on double-brood. I have been thinking that perhaps double-brood is overkill because the bees never seem to use it all and that perhaps I'd be better off reducing them to brood-and-a-half. On the other hand, I know of people in the area who use double-brood as a matter of course and perhaps the only reason the bees haven't used all the space is that the summers haven't exactly been the greatest over the last few years.

James

 

[drstitson]

"I have been thinking that perhaps double-brood is overkill because the bees never seem to use it all"

depends upon the bees. some are very prolific.

an assoc newbie last year took delivery of a nuc (blackhorse apiaries bees) in first week april. by end of april had filled brood box and were preparing to swarm. a nuc was taken off and remaining QCs destroyed plus extra box given which was quickly filled. that colony gave 85lb in it's first season and even the nuc managed 15lb once expanded.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

IMO now is not the time to go to double brood. Better to do it in spring when the brood nest is expanding and they have filled the first BB.

 

[Black Comb]

This is what I would do.
Put a drawn super back on above a QE.
Wait for it to fill with ivy or if you like feed it, either way aim for a full super of food. About end of October remove super and QE and place the super underneath the b/b (but above the floor) and do NOT use a QE.

The bees will have some room now, they will have a full super of food for the winter and in the spring when the queen starts to lay she will start in the top (i.e. the b/b) and if you get your timing right you can remove the super before she starts to lay in it. You can then expand to double b/b next season. Bear in mind that approx 50,000 bees now will be approx 15,000 by the spring.

This has worked for me these past 3 years with nationals.

 

[luckydunny]

Thank you "Peter S"

Your reply was most helpfull and will probably be the way I will go.

What does one do with the super used for Brood and a half once moved to 2BB? I assume it cannot be used as a honey super again - or can it and how?

 

[Bee-Key-Pur]

"I have been thinking that perhaps double-brood is overkill because the bees never seem to use it all"

depends upon the bees. some are very prolific.

an assoc newbie last year took delivery of a nuc (blackhorse apiaries bees) in first week april. by end of april had filled brood box and were preparing to swarm. a nuc was taken off and remaining QCs destroyed plus extra box given which was quickly filled. that colony gave 85lb in it's first season and even the nuc managed 15lb once expanded.

I tried double BB with my strong hives last winter and the hives shrunk back to one BB, the other BB was still full of capped stores in the spring...

Brian

 

[Black Comb]

If the queen does not lay in the super (take it off at right time she won't) then it is OK to use it again. May have some crystallised stores in some frames though.

If the frames have been used for brood rearing it's best not to use it for honey.

 

[Flatters]

I had a colony that I united with another at the end of last season so by chance they became a double BB colony. I have to say that a season on I have found it to be very hard to manage. It is hard work to find the queen when I needed to do an AS, when the frames were not balance up they built wild comb. It has not stopped them swarming (despite efforts well before the event). And I would be glad to see it as a single brood.

But the problem is it is a very prolific colony and in August the two BB and 4 supers were packed with bees and swarmed even after doing an AS in late April. I am thinking I will follow PeterS’s advice for the 4 other colonies I have.

I would like to avoid double BB in future. I may move to 14x12 next year.

 

[luckydunny]

Sorted. Thanks to everyone and again Peter, most helpful.

 

[andycadman]

If the queen does not lay in the super (take it off at right time she won't) then it is OK to use it again.[I][/I]

If treating for Varroa surely it would not be wise to re-use for producing honey for human consumption?

(Unless put on after treatment).

 

[Black Comb]

No mention of varroa treatment in the question.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

This is what I would do.
Put a drawn super back on above a QE.
Wait for it to fill with ivy or if you like feed it, either way aim for a full super of food. About end of October remove super and QE and place the super underneath the b/b (but above the floor) and do NOT use a QE.

The bees will have some room now, they will have a full super of food for the winter and in the spring when the queen starts to lay she will start in the top (i.e. the b/b) and if you get your timing right you can remove the super before she starts to lay in it. You can then expand to double b/b next season. Bear in mind that approx 50,000 bees now will be approx 15,000 by the spring.

This has worked for me these past 3 years with nationals.

This is what I do too.

 

[hiveabee]

Like you its my first year. I only got my bees in June. The hive has done well and it got so busy and full 5 weeks ago I was advised to put on a super with drawn comb (I borrowed the comb off my beekeeper mate). Any way the weather turned and although the bees have put in a bit of honey on 4 frames they haven't sealed it. So have been advised to go brood and half and feed till the frames are full then put the super under brood box.