Double brood working vs Demaree

[elainemary]

Just thinking about my colony plans for the coming season. I tried a Demaree in a couple of colonies last year (2nd brood box above supers for sealed brood, to provide more space for queen in bottom brood box). Wondering whether to move to double brood instead, for colonies that need the space. Advantages seem to include keeping the brood nest together, so the bees form a natural pollen / honey arc (rather than putting pollen in the first super), whilst still giving more space for the queen to lay. Plus, simplicity of doing a vertical split for swarm control if required. Can dummy space down if the bees don’t need the full amount of double brood space, encouraging bees to store surplus honey in the supers. So wondering why consider using Demaree in preference to running a double brood system? What is your experience using double brood vs Demaree, which would you recommend & why?
Appreciate you thoughts
Thanks, Elaine

 

[Erichalfbee]

Never tried double brood; brood and a half once.
I like to Demaree a couple of colonies and keep it rolling to give the queen endless space to lay. Works well for me.

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

Sometimes I think that members not using real names on forums is a hangover from the early days of the internet and shouldn't be encouraged (or allowed) today. Some newspapers require real names for posting comments - presumably because it helps reduce offensive posting.

On the other hand, I've just enjoyed listening to the song Eric the Half-a-Bee (Monty Python, 1972) with its amazing, crazy words. And I'd never have done that if I'd not wanted to get to the bottom of the forum name Erichalfbee!

 

[Monbees]

Sometimes I think that members not using real names on forums is a hangover from the early days of the internet and shouldn't be encouraged (or allowed) today. Some newspapers require real names for posting comments - presumably because it helps reduce offensive posting.

On the other hand, I've just enjoyed listening to the song Eric the Half-a-Bee (Monty Python, 1972) with its amazing, crazy words. And I'd never have done that if I'd not wanted to get to the bottom of the forum name Erichalfbee!

I'll bet half the beekeeping forum are looking up the lyrics of Eric the Half a Bee. I never knew the derivation until now!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Ah well MP lives on despite members dropping off as time passes.

 

[The Poot]

Just thinking about my colony plans for the coming season. I tried a Demaree in a couple of colonies last year (2nd brood box above supers for sealed brood, to provide more space for queen in bottom brood box). Wondering whether to move to double brood instead, for colonies that need the space. Advantages seem to include keeping the brood nest together, so the bees form a natural pollen / honey arc (rather than putting pollen in the first super), whilst still giving more space for the queen to lay. Plus, simplicity of doing a vertical split for swarm control if required. Can dummy space down if the bees don’t need the full amount of double brood space, encouraging bees to store surplus honey in the supers. So wondering why consider using Demaree in preference to running a double brood system? What is your experience using double brood vs Demaree, which would you recommend & why?
Appreciate you thoughts
Thanks, Elaine

Hi Elaine,
Spooky - I’m going through the same thought process.

I am likely to go to double brood rather than demaree as I don’t have marked queens and often fail to find them!
I can see the benefit of demaree and understand that once the brood have emerged in the top box, it can be used to create double brood arrangement.
I have the kit to be able to use the nucleus method as a back up if the little beggars still intend to swarm from a double brood arrangement.

Having said that, I’m not fully decided and will view the replies with interest.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Ah well MP lives on despite members dropping off as time passes.

I still remember the radio show which started "Hey you down there. You with the glasses."

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Marking queens doesn't make them easier to find.
Double brood doesn't address the issue of swarming fever in the least, having more space doesn't mean less chance of swarming, Demarree addresses just that.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Sometimes I think that members not using real names on forums is a hangover from the early days of the internet and shouldn't be encouraged (or allowed) today.

So what posessed your parents to christen you Beekeyplayer? is it an old family name?

 

[StephenT]

This was something I was thinking about as well (not the Monty Python bit). I’ve got one hive on brood and a half using the Wally Shaw method and want to continue with that. The other two were new hives last year and are currently on single brood and my plan was to go to double brood and regulate the space with Kingspan ‘dummy boards’ assuming they need more space than a single. I was a bit apprehensive about having double brood + demarree + supers. Could get rather high and complicated.

 

[GuyNir]

Marking queens doesn't make them easier to find.

For me it does.

 

[GuyNir]

The way I see it, Demaree has better chance of preventing swarming + provide you with more options.

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

So what posessed your parents to christen you Beekeyplayer? is it an old family name?

I knew I was setting myself up for that
And my apologies for interrupting the discussion on double brood and Demaree, especially as I'm working through Wally Shaw just now and got a bit distracted...

 

[Boston Bees]

Marking queens doesn't make them easier to find.

Sorry to hear that. This will cause a certain amount of consternation across the beekeeping world

In other news, high visibility jackets have been shown to be no more visible than any other jackets, and a group of scarlet macaws have been told to stop showing off because they actually look no different to sparrows.

 

[Swarm]

Nothing wrong with double brood as an option, mine have PIR packers that allow flexibility, usually nine per box. Manipulating frames is still required, no good allowing a honey arc on brood frames, they need to believe there is space above.
My friend sums it up like this. they will normally make preparations anyway, in single brood that is earlier, in double brood you are splitting the colony just when you need the foraging force.
I suggested he try Demarree last year and he now plans more this year. Every colony on Demarree last year produced over 100lbs of honey and some very nice queens as a bonus.
I split my doubles when I see a good drone population, usually a super or two on the hive by then and move all the sealed brood to the top box. This year I'm using only deep boxes on most as we intend to raise a lot more queens if possible so I need the comb.
The versatility of Demarree makes it such a good choice of swarm prevention and simple queen rearing. Colonies can reach a very large size that can be a bit intimidating if they have a bad day but so can a a colony on double brood (they are both the same essentially)
I'll probably have a play with a three box, no excluder set up as well. All good fun.

No more defeatist talk, Poot. Springtime, when colony size is small, go through them gently with just one intention, find and mark queen. Start concentrating when you see open brood and eggs, if you've not disturbed them too much, she is generally in this area going about her business.

 

[Michael Palmer]

I can't imagine trying to keep my bees in single broods or brood and a halfs. Yes, you're there and I'm here. No doubt different. My colonies are kept in double broods and a medium super. Yes, it's true...volume alone doesn't address swarming fever....can't say I see this fever although I do hear from some beekeepers that they can't keep their bees out of the trees. Breeding and management will reduce swarming to a manageable level, I'm my opinion. I select breeding stock from colonies with a lower propensity to swarm....colonies that build big populations early and store big crops of honey. For instance, colonies that begin the dandelion bloom with 9 or 10 frames of brood and go on to make 250 pounds of honey. Overflowing with bees the whole time but never a swarm cell in these...year after year. Never split or AS or Demareed, or anything. Supered early before dandelion, brood nest reversed on dandelion, and additional supers added. We super heavily in the first half of the season, being more conservative near the end of the flow. From what I see, swarming is a minor issue for me.

 

[elainemary]

Marking queens doesn't make them easier to find.
Double brood doesn't address the issue of swarming fever in the least, having more space doesn't mean less chance of swarming, Demarree addresses

I was wondering whether double brood delays / prevents the onset of the swarming urge due to additional space in the brood nest (like the Demaree does). Why does Demaree work better to the reduce swarming urge if the space, flow and colony overall strength is the same?
Only reason I can think of is whether MORE nurse bees go up with the brood in the top box and leas stay in the bottom, but surely the nurse bees come back down again as soon as the queen lays in the empty frames in the lower box which she can do very quickly?

 

[elainemary]

This was something I was thinking about as well (not the Monty Python bit). I’ve got one hive on brood and a half using the Wally Shaw method and want to continue with that. The other two were new hives last year and are currently on single brood and my plan was to go to double brood and regulate the space with Kingspan ‘dummy boards’ assuming they need more space than a single. I was a bit apprehensive about having double brood + demarree + supers. Could get rather high and complicated.

Understand the ‘optimum’ space for the brood nest is 14 frames (according to Beowulf Cooper) so agree dummying down is a good plan, otherwise could have excessive honey in the brood nest when you want it up in the super.

 

[Swarm]

I can't remember, do you use excluders Mike?

 

[elainemary]

The way I see it, Demaree has better chance of preventing swarming + provide you with more options.

What are the extra options that Demaree allows that double brood doesn’t?
Pls explain