Double brood swarm signal?

[JonnyPicklechin]

Inspection of good strong (though not bursting) DB hive showed charged QC but jelly seemed old, grey, as though they had given up. I marched on inspecting and then found just a single sealed QC hidden away, not very large.

Clipped green queen was there so I popped in a NUC (better safe than sorry) with a decent amount of bees on frames and extra some shaken bees. I marked the frame where the QC was in the main hive and closed it all up.

My gut feel was supersedure but with my actions it doesn't really matter, I guess. I plan to let them crack on and raise a new Q, though I do have a couple of spare small NUCs with new blue spare queens that I could intro via newspaper. Inspection was at about 11.30 if that makes a difference to some quick actions. Weather still Ok if I need to go back in.

What would you guys do?

 

[enrico]

Just what you did!
E

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

Cheers Eric. I like posts like these. I feel like im getting the hang of this. But then.....


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[Hebeegeebee]

With a queen, eggs, I assume and no excessive drone brood, I assume, I would have been inclined to remove the queencells that were present and then check again in a week or so. (And has the amount of brood reduced over the past few weeks indicating a slowing queen?)

As it is, you don't know how old the supercedure queencell is and as the colony is now queenless, they will raise queencells. The fun will be to ensure that the s/c queen, when she emerges, doesn't fly off and leave the emergency cells behind.

 

[mike99]

I also have a double brood and when I did an inspection the lower BB was fine but the upper BB had a lot of QC's. all of them open but a couple of them charged. there were larvae in various stages in both BB's. the queen was easy to spot but the markings might have worn off as I struggle to see her now with the amount of bees in the hive.
I am not sure if it was the close weather or recent bad spell but the other thing I noticed was that both my colonies were as nasty as they could be. Luckily I have gauntlets and lined Marigolds or they would have had me. One did manage to get into my veil but I managed to dispatch it before it could sting me. There were a lot of enthusiastic followers as well. If they don't sort themselves out I will have to try and trace the queen and get some new ones. As I said, I am strugging to see the queen from the double BB hive and I have never been able to find the single BB queen even after about a dozen inspections.

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

With a queen, eggs, I assume and no excessive drone brood, I assume, I would have been inclined to remove the queencells that were present and then check again in a week or so. (And has the amount of brood reduced over the past few weeks indicating a slowing queen?)

As it is, you don't know how old the supercedure queencell is and as the colony is now queenless, they will raise queencells. The fun will be to ensure that the s/c queen, when she emerges, doesn't fly off and leave the emergency cells behind.

What would be the estimated behaviour now I if I were to tear down all QCs and introduce a new mated queen in a cage? Or easier still (for me in this situation) a queen right NUC by newspaper?
I could check again in a 5 or 6 days and see if they have accepted the queen AND the QC build situation?

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

What would be the estimated behaviour now I if I were to tear down all QCs and introduce a new mated queen in a cage? Or easier still (for me in this situation) a queen right NUC by newspaper?
I could check again in a 5 or 6 days and see if they have accepted the queen AND the QC build situation?

anyone have an answer/comment on this?

 

[Swarm]

It depends on the nature of the colony. They are expecting a virgin queen, suddenly there is a mated queen. Many will object and this is why it is always safer to introduce a new queen to a small nuc of nurse bees and emerging brood.

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

It depends on the nature of the colony. They are expecting a virgin queen, suddenly there is a mated queen. Many will object and this is why it is always safer to introduce a new queen to a small nuc of nurse bees and emerging brood.

Thanks Steve....I have a queen ready in a good, mature NUC. Want to newspaper them and her to this hive. I was thinking that I could newspaper AND cage her just to be certain. Maybe leave the cage for a week...

 

[Erichalfbee]

Why are you complicating things? Uniting two colonies with newspaper is a tried and tested method. Why put the queen in a cage as well?

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

Sorry Dani...i was only creating an insurance policy given Steve and my own natural feeling that they may not even accept the queen with the NUC given they are in manic QC prep.

If the advised wisdom is the NUC-to- newspaper will be fine " as it is" I will gladly skip the cage.

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[Erichalfbee]

You always run the risk of the bees doing the queen in no matter what you do. I introduced a black queen to one of my orange colonies in a large push in cage. I didn’t let her out till she had laid up quite a few cells and all the emerging brood had emerged and accepted her. She skipped off happily but next time I looked she was missing and there were ten emergency cells on the bit she laid up.
A nuc is nearly as safe as you can be but sometimes stuff happens.

 

[Swarm]

You always run the risk of the bees doing the queen in no matter what you do. I introduced a black queen to one of my orange colonies in a large push in cage. I didn’t let her out till she had laid up quite a few cells and all the emerging brood had emerged and accepted her. She skipped off happily but next time I looked she was missing and there were ten emergency cells on the bit she laid up.
A nuc is nearly as safe as you can be but sometimes stuff happens.

Yeah, that's the other thing they do, grudgingly accept just to get a supply of eggs so they can raise their own.

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

Well...I just went with a basic newspaper, no cage. Will give them 24 hours and see.

They will or they won't.

 

[drex]

I would leave it a few days before disturbing them.