Double Brood,How To?

[yeogi75]

I agree with tom
on the bottom early let them build up what they want ,and them in mid summer swop over if needed , or just leave for over wintering and just super up over the season , leaving what ever they need for over wintering might not even need feeding , but depends how much honey you need to take off ,and for inspection just split brood boxes and tilt back look under top box looks fine put back , but if you are not sure then do full inspection mostly queen cells will be in the top box (but not always)

 

[Finman]

I have adopted the brood box on the bottom and when happy with the start on the new frames ( they won't be fully built) I switch the boxes to encourage them to finish it's a sort of 50-50 approach. I think perhaps it's my liberal approach to life that makes this system work for me.

I adopted this habit when I saw that bees abandon about 30% of their brood when I put second brood box over the brood. They are not able to keep them warm over nights.

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[yeogi75]

just opened mine split at middle of double brood boxes, 13 frames being worked on that's it that's all I need to know, 8 on bottom 5 on top shut up inspection 3 seconds or so no frames lifted no need its that easy, this is the hive I followed finmans advice on, my other hives I will look at in about 3 - 4 weeks time they have not built up as my double brood, and I taken six frame to make up nucs from as well .

 

[Jed D]

Wow , this Forum it great..
Gardening Girl , asked a question...
5 Pages later and I'm confused

 

[yeogi75]

its called boredom

 

[pargyle]

Wow , this Forum it great..
Gardening Girl , asked a question...
5 Pages later and I'm confused

You did better than me ... I got to that stage at the bottom of Page 1 !! So much for Beginners Section ...

 

[Tom Bick]

You did better than me ... I got to that stage at the bottom of Page 1 !! So much for Beginners Section ...

Confusion yes especially now after post 18

 

[Swarm]

Well double brood wouldn't normally be considered a beginners option but since the question was asked.....
With a variety of answers, the OP can decide which approach to try.

I've lifted frames from below in the past and also just plonked a new brood on top. I tried the new box underneath, swapping it around when they began to draw and it worked a treat, so I stuck with it. It's nice and easy and the bees seem to like it.

 

[gardening-girl]

I am amazed by the difference in the responses to my question.
It proves the point that there are no hard and fast rules to beekeeping.
I thank you all for totally confusing me,in the nicest possible way.
I will let you know what I decide to do.

 

[yeogi75]

this is where the learning comes into it your decision your mistake but everyone is to help you get back on tracks good keeping

 

[iand]

... i find they draw the combs faster and much better quality above, usually around four to five days to draw a full standard national box, and much less work for me and the bees being above in the warm and not down in the cold avoiding drawing comb right to the bottom bars.

I agree with you on this HM, a much better job & drawn down to the bottom bar.
Some langstroth double brood boxes were put on last Friday with a splash of syrup. A quick check yesterday showed about 40% drawn.
Later on when it gets warmer, I find my nationals will have frames drawn & laid up in a week.
Of course colder temps & colonies not as strong slow the job down maybe considerably, experience helps here.
Plenty of that has been posted on here, work out what may be best for you then give it a go.
Good luck

 

[Dishmop]

I am amazed by the difference in the responses to my question.
It proves the point that there are no hard and fast rules to beekeeping.
I thank you all for totally confusing me,in the nicest possible way.
I will let you know what I decide to do.

and then somebody will say...."no.. it would have been better if..........."

 

[weatherman1200]

You are dealing with a living system that does not always read the books

 

[maddydog]

I've got two colonies on single standard national deeps that I'm hoping to run as two deeps. The frames in the spare boxes are already fully drawn out, does it matter whether I put them above or below?
My roofs are full box depth and made from kingspan so the upper box is likely to be much warmer than the bottom, does this make any difference?

 

[erlstoke]

1 use a national and went double brood in my second season, I started by putting my empty broodbox underneath and after two weeks, nothing. Swapped to the top and within three weeks had brood in it.

 

[Finman]

1 use a national and went double brood in my second season, I started by putting my empty broodbox underneath and after two weeks, nothing. Swapped to the top and within three weeks had brood in it.

The colony was not ready to enlarge. Brood cycle is 3 weeks and it needs lots of new bees. It is difficult to see, when it is ready even with my experience.

Last summer I had an early nuc. It seemed to be ready to expand and I put second the box under, then up and again under. In 3 weeks nothing happened.

Then I got a swarm from my friend. I added it to the colony. After 2 days queen had layed 3 frames in the new box.

Professionals, who has hundreds of hives, they have not time to inspect every hive, where they are going. They use probable actions and let the bees correct faults. With my style I get douple yield compared to professionals, but my style is too slow to earn living.Professionals are very harsh in their systems. They may use 15 minutes to inspect 10 hives and do the actions.

 

[Finman]

I've got two colonies on single standard national deeps that I'm hoping to run as two deeps. The frames in the spare boxes are already fully drawn out, does it matter whether I put them above or below?
My roofs are full box depth and made from kingspan so the upper box is likely to be much warmer than the bottom, does this make any difference?

Put it first down. When bees have occupied the new box fully, and it has half full brood, swap the boxes. Then perhaps next week you may add first super.
Then take care, after that the expanding may be fast and you need to add every week one super.

.You may do so too that if the colony had too many winter food frames, let 2 frames be in upper box and move all others food frames to the centre of lower box.

 

[Finman]

.
NOTICE!

What we talk about now has nothing to do with douple brood. We are talking about how and when to react when the colony is expanding during spring.

If we react too early, the colony is too cold and build up slows down. If we are late, the colony gets swarming fever.

I do not use excluder and in practice I use 3-brood system. But my problems are the same every spring: when to add more boxes.

In practice 2-brood hive has only one box full of bees after winter and the amount reduces more up to day when masses of new bees start to emerge. Then it takes a while that winter bees have died and new bees compensate dead bees. Then happens a quick expansion.

So in practice douple brood has allways empty box under the brood box. It is natural way. Then you do not anything and the colony expands by itself to the lower box.

I keep often lower box for pollen. There must be room for pollen stores and it is not good if the colony fills brood space with pollen.

Another thing is that is the queen able to lay in 2 boxes? After winter many queens loose their laying ability, queen is old or queen is not able to lay more.

But you will se it when you try it! You do not get the answer from internet. The answer is in each colony.
.

 

[Finman]

IS THE PROBLEM REAL WHAT YOU DO

Last spring I helped one friend to buy 10 normal hives after winter.
She had no experience. She had education from beekeeping theory course.

After a good summer her hives had only two boxes bees. At same time my hives had 6 boxes, even if I started with 3 frame nucs.

What happened and what did not happened in her all 10 hives? I do not know and she do not know. But I suspect that she kept so much ventilation that brooding was on minimum level. She had third box in each hive, but they were undrawn and they were quite empty of bees. Hives did not swarm.

Perhaps she did something that most of brood was destroyed. Because when we bought the hives and I helped to move them, I did not see anything special in them. The hives were very low in pollen stores, and the reason may bee that seller had too many hive in his yard. 40 hives and nucs. Spring was really good.

.

 

[maddydog]

Thanks Finman. Glad to see you're posting again.