Double Brood Box

[Smith21]

When putting on an extra brood box is it best to put in under or on top of the original brood box.

 

[Finman]

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It depends what you have there just now. Have you only one brood and no supers, or do you have allready supers.

If you have only one brood and perhaps one super, one brood on top is too much room to bees to occupye at once.

Now you may put it under brood, YOu collect food frames from recent brood and put them into foundation box in the middle.

If you have all frames brood, you may put 3 brood frames (in punch) in the middle on foundation box and 3 foundations up to brood box.


Of course you can put foundation box over the brood box, but it depends, how cold are nights, the hive may loose 30% of brood in couple of days.
They mover happily to the upper warm box and abandon brood in lower parts.

I know that. No litterature needed and you see it yourself when you do the trick.
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[Smith21]

It's a 14x12 brood box only which is full so need to give more space so I was thinking of doing a double brood or am I doing the wrong thing?

 

[Davelin]

14 x 12 is a big box.

What is it full of? Brood, stores, bees?

More supers would give room for stores and bees .

 

[enrico]

I agree that it a bb that size should not need to be doubled unless you work on the no excluder theory of finmans, I think you may find you need more super room the bees will move stores into the supers. Brood should be emerging in time for the queen to refill with eggs in a bb of that size but if you really think you need another bb then add it underneath the old one
E

 

[Finman]

It's a 14x12 brood box only which is full so need to give more space so I was thinking of doing a double brood or am I doing the wrong thing?

Put the foundation box under the brood box. Bees occupy it when the colony grows. Follow how it happens and learn to foresee things next year.
How fast they occupy the next box, is impossible to know. Brood cycle is 3 weeks, and impossible to know when each brood frame emerges.

One full frood frame gives 3 frames bees. 3 frames giuves one box.
Brood procures as much heat as resting bees. It helps hive energy controll too.

2- box hive does not need mesh floor open. Shut it and keep main entrance in size 15 cm x 1 cm. It fastens build up. So it works here even if I have here 25C.

When the lower box is half full of brood, swap it with upper box. After some days you may add the super over the brood boxes.

Look inside the hive every week and learn

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[Finman]

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If somebody thinks that now I have a brood box and then I put an excluder and a super, that will not work with modern queens. That hive will become soon into swarming mode.

 

[itma]

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If somebody thinks that now I have a brood box and then I put an excluder and a super, that will not work with modern queens. That hive will become soon into swarming mode.

Finman - this is a 14x12. Have you ever seen one?

Simply because it is a big box does not prevent swarming.
But it should be VERY unusual to need more brood space.

Double 14x12 is a beast.
I have one (after combining) and hope to reduce it back to single today.
Avoid if possible, especially if you don't have extra hands and muscle available.


Rather than doubling up, I'd suggest removing any complete stores frames from the brood box, bruising cappings of any excessive honey arch, and even stealing a frame or two of emerging brood to bolster weaker colonies, nucs or swarms. All can help make more room in the BB for new brood. Which is what its for. Ensuring there is room for new brood is one important aspect of swarm avoidance.

Double 14x12 is not a good place to be for the beekeeper working alone!

 

[Finman]

Finman - this is a 14x12. Have you ever seen one?

Simply because it is a big box does not prevent swarming.
But it should be VERY unusual to need more brood space.

Double 14x12 is a beast.
I have one (after combining) and hope to reduce it back to single today.
Avoid if possible, especially if you don't have extra hands and muscle available.


Rather than doubling up, I'd suggest removing any complete stores frames from the brood box, bruising cappings of any excessive honey arch, and even stealing a frame or two of emerging brood to bolster weaker colonies, nucs or swarms. All can help make more room in the BB for new brood. Which is what its for. Ensuring there is room for new brood is one important aspect of swarm avoidance.

Double 14x12 is not a good place to be for the beekeeper working alone!

goooood heeeaaaavennnnnns Itma. Beekeeping is not so delicate.

I have nursed douple broods 50 yeas. Question is only to give more room when colony grows.
And triple or septa brood depends where yout put excluder.

If the colony is swarmy stock, nothing can stops its swarming.

Help me heaven to stand national beekeeping tricks of millenium!

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[Finman]

When putting on an extra brood box is it best to put in under or on top of the original brood box.

this the way you go. Nothing more.
Look and learn what bees tend to do naturally.

 

[itma]

goooood heeeaaaavennnnnns Itma. Beekeeping is not so delicate.

I have nursed douple broods 50 yeas. Question is only to give more room when colony grows.
And triple or septa brood depends where yout put excluder.
...
Help me heaven to stand national beekeeping tricks of millenium!

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Double Dadant? You must have more muscles than I do!

The hive in question is only about 10% smaller brood area than a Dadant.

 

[MJBee]

I have 2 very prolific colonies, one of which started on a 14 x 12 brood. at 8 frames of brood it was given a super. After a little while it had 10 frames of wall to wall brood and 3 supers all packed with bees. While it showed no signs of swarming it was very crowded so I gave it a standard national brood of foundation to keep them occupied and give them space.

They are currently filling both brood boxes and 4 supers and seem to have stopped expanding - just as well I would need step ladders to add another super.

 

[Finman]

Double Dadant? You must have more muscles than I do!

The hive in question is only about 10% smaller brood area than a Dadant.

He did not told what size he is usoing. At leats I do not know. 12 x 14 says to me nothing. Inches or centimeters.

 

[Finman]

I have 2 very prolific colonies, one of which started on a 14 x 12 brood. at 8 frames of brood it was given a super. After a little while it had 10 frames of wall to wall brood and 3 supers all packed with bees. While it showed no signs of swarming it was very crowded so I gave it a standard national brood of foundation to keep them occupied and give them space.

They are currently filling both brood boxes and 4 supers and seem to have stopped expanding - just as well I would need step ladders to add another super.

You have a special queen.

You achieve same results with Langstroth medium boxes where foundation hight is 14 cm. In that size 3 boxes are equal to 2 langstroth. You may use dadant, but the result is the same.

 

[Davelin]

He did not told what size he is usoing. At leats I do not know. 12 x 14 says to me nothing. Inches or centimeters.

Yes he did. He clearly stated 14 x 12.
We all know what that means.
14 x 12 centimetres would be an extremely small frame!

 

[Goodwood]

On the subject of double broods, what are people's thoughts regarding dropping back to a single BB for the winter?
I.e. moving queen excluder down so the top BB hatches and becomes in effect a large super.
Does this place a short term shock to the colony increasing a swarming tendancy?
The attractions of a load of drawn BB combs plus a potential nice load of honey are clear, but after last winter's llosses I am also considering running some double BBs through the winter in view of potentially larger bee mass.

Also advice on timing of cutting back to one BB
One experienced bee keeper told me that last week of june was about right; but then this year has been pushed back a good two weeks or so.
Anyone?
TIA

 

[Finman]

Yes he did. He clearly stated 14 x 12.
We all know what that means.
14 x 12 centimetres would be an extremely small frame!

OK. then everything is oolright.
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[enrico]

On the subject of double broods, what are people's thoughts regarding dropping back to a single BB for the winter?
I.e. moving queen excluder down so the top BB hatches and becomes in effect a large super.
Does this place a short term shock to the colony increasing a swarming tendancy?
The attractions of a load of drawn BB combs plus a potential nice load of honey are clear, but after last winter's llosses I am also considering running some double BBs through the winter in view of potentially larger bee mass.

Also advice on timing of cutting back to one BB
One experienced bee keeper told me that last week of june was about right; but then this year has been pushed back a good two weeks or so.
Anyone?
TIA

You don't have to ....leave them on a double bb, at the end of the winter...about January ( depending on what winter has been like) lift the top brood box and remove the one underneath it. It will definitely be empty of brood and will probably be empty of food. If it is cold the bees will all be in the top bb. You can then clean it, look at the frames and re use again the next year if necessary.
E

 

[Finman]

leave them on a double bb, at the end of the winter...about January ( depending on what winter has been like) lift the top brood box and remove the one underneath it. E

it is important to over winter colony in one dadant. 2 makes no sense. Colony is not very big even now.

And there is no second dadant, it is better to use normal supers rest of summer.

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[Smith21]

Thanks for all the replies, I will go through and divulge all the info.