Double Brood Box or Brood Box & Super?

[BernardBlack]

So, let’s say you have a colony in a single Brood box.

The colony is building well, and you need to give them more space.

What would be the thinking in whether to add another Brood box or whether to add a super?

 

[Swarm]

Frame size. A lot of mine are on double brood but I dummy them, so eighteen frames. My friend often runs brood and a half but I prefer to keep brood on one size frame.

 

[JamezF]

Frame size. A lot of mine are on double brood but I dummy them, so eighteen frames. My friend often runs brood and a half but I prefer to keep brood on one size frame.

I feel the same way. For me life is just easier with a single size of brood frame. I'm also thinking about dummying mine down to a smaller number of frames per box this year as they don't really seem to use all the space available in a double brood.

James

 

[user 20833]

I think you might be asking whether to add space to the brood area (double brood) or above (excluder then supers)? For me it depends on the bees and the hive size. My goal at this time of the year is to ensure that the queen has space to lay eggs and the bees have space to store nectar. Different people do it different ways. Peter Little (Hivemaker) used Nationals and had about half on singles and half on doubles - depends on how prolific the queen is. If there is a honey arc in the brood chamber they probably need supers whereas if it's wall to wall solid brood they need another brood box - that's what he told me.

 

[Boston Bees]

Brood on super frames complicates your life later.

But if you add a second brood box, don't just chuck it on top and walk away. Move several frames of brood up into it to create a chimney shaped brood nest, to encourage them to use the new box

 

[BernardBlack]

I see. Some good thoughts there.


One Queen is doing really well, and just want to be prepared.

I originally thought I’d use a QE, and add a super. But, in time, I think she’ll fill out the Brood box, and have nowhere to go if there’s a QE between the B.B. and super.

 

[ericbeaumont]

in time, I think she’ll fill out the Brood box, and have nowhere to go

Don't hang about because at this time of year that can happen before you know it, and the next thing you see are QCs.

By comparison, all mine are on doubles, many on triples and a few on four.

At the main flow (when the impetus after the equinox is likely to change from replication to acquisition) the queen can be put into a lower box, a QX put on and upper BBs turned into supers. Gives you a supply of drawn comb.

Hive configuration ought to be as fluid as a situation demands, and the limited layouts shown in catalogues is misleading.

 

[Erichalfbee]

By comparison, all mine are on doubles, many on triples and a few on four.

You have colonies on four National broods? How many frames of brood?

 

[ericbeaumont]

How many frames of brood?

Bottom box fourish brood + pollen, next two each eightish brood + stores, top box three or so + honey. Two supers on, first heavy.

Most are doubles and triples. The spring heatwave led to an early start, and there are full supers here and there.

Much rather give space early than chase QCs, though of course, doing that as well.

 

[Hairy]

Can I ask if once you get to several brood boxes is that something that will shrink back over winter annually or all being well that hive stays that big?
As said above, as someone with no bees yet, hives sold as one brood two supers made me think that is what the bees want. They probably don't look at what the internet says they want too often though

 

[TomH]

Does anyone use national brood boxes, exclusively?

Brood and a half is somewhat infuriating, as it limits what comb you can move about. I quite like the rose hive method, with one size box. Downside is availability of rose boxes, really not keen on the thorne plywood ones.

Half toying with the idea of just doing everything on poly national boxes and working out the few shallows I have. Guessing the weight of a nat brood box filled with honey is huge!

 

[enrico]

Does anyone use national brood boxes, exclusively?

Brood and a half is somewhat infuriating, as it limits what comb you can move about. I quite like the rose hive method, with one size box. Downside is availability of rose boxes, really not keen on the thorne plywood ones.

Half toying with the idea of just doing everything on poly national boxes and working out the few shallows I have. Guessing the weight of a nat brood box filled with honey is huge!

Have you ever tried to lift a brood box full of honey? Just to do simple inspections needs a crane!

 

[ericbeaumont]

Does anyone use national brood boxes, exclusively?

Quite a few, I'm sure. Use supers exclusively if you prefer.

The honey company I work for uses BBs only without QXs. Simple system that shrinks or expands as needed. Most overwinter on doubles.

tried to lift a brood box full of honey? Just to do simple inspections needs a crane!

Not found inspections a problem. Honey boxes need two people, for sure.

 

[ericbeaumont]

the few shallows I have

Supers are good for cut comb, and if you extract DNs with a small extractor, tangential screens and 3 frames a time slow the work massively.

A swing-basket extractor or one with a vast diameter would solve the problem of insufficient centrifugal force, which is the consequence the closer the comb gets to the centre of the machine.

 

[Poly Hive]

I run double brood 10 frame Swienty polys. When the first brood box is at 8 frames of brood I add a 2nd BB BELOW. Why? If it is on top the bees see it as a honey super and start to use it as such. At the same time I add a super with a mix of CC foundation and drawn comb. Thus they have plenty of room for brood and also somewhere to store honey. I'm just back from the bees and one I treated like this two weeks ago now has 16 frames of brood and is well on with two supers of honey: the 2nd sup added 4 days ago. A good queen builds a good colony and a good colony moves pretty fast.

 

[ericbeaumont]

something that will shrink back over winter annually or all being well that hive stays that big?

The colony (and consequently the hive) will contract slowly after the June equinox and the beekeeper must adapt the configuration accordingly.

A hive is like an accordion: the beekeeper must read the bees' sheet music and play vertically and horizontally, slowly or presto (even faster than prestissimo).

one brood two supers made me think that is what the bees want. They probably don't look at what the internet says

Very, utterly and totally true.

 

[BernardBlack]

So, given the information around colony size increasing and decreasing according to the time of year....

Is it better for a colony if the Brood nest grows wide across the Brood box?

Or narrower and upwards into another Brood box/super?

 

[ericbeaumont]

Is it better for a colony if the Brood nest grows wide across the Brood box?
Or narrower and upwards into another Brood box/super?

Neither, but both.

 

[oliver90owner]

I feel the same way. For me life is just easier with a single size of brood frame. I'm also thinking about dummying mine down to a smaller number of frames per box this year as they don't really seem to use all the space available in a double brood.

James

Ahh, you’ve noticed. 100,000 cells are not needed for brooding about every 25 days.. Thats even with a honey arch, for stores for the brood.

So, let’s say you have a colony in a single Brood box.

The colony is building well, and you need to give them more space.

What would be the thinking in whether to add another Brood box or whether to add a super?

Whether a super or an extra brood box rather depends on your local situation. A super is for honey and a brood box is for brood - there is the first choice.

Location and type of beeare other considerations, which we cannot see.

Also depends on hive construction. Single-walled timber will rarely (likely never) have brood on the outer frames against the wall; poly may well have brood immediately adjacent to the hive wall.

 

[JamezF]

Ahh, you’ve noticed. 100,000 cells are not needed for brooding about every 25 days.. Thats even with a honey arch, for stores for the brood.

Quite. I'm thinking that for here, brood and a half is actually about the right capacity, just the wrong format.

James