Do you have VSH Queens

[Finman]

No I don’t and I didn’t say that. Do you think that 4 hive beekeepers are keen to actively improve their stock? Who knows? Most I know can’t be bothered. It’s hard work.

In my experience it is impossible to keep own stock in under 20 hives apiary. Original features are disapeared in two or in one year.

 

[user 819]

The LASI vsh Q's didn't last very long at the LBKA and at the time I though it was a waste of money, I don't think they made it to the end of the year before being replaced by the colonies.

 

[rolande]

No I don’t and I didn’t say that. Do you think that 4 hive beekeepers are keen to actively improve their stock? Who knows? Most I know can’t be bothered. It’s hard work.

But if someone's already done the work and can *prove* that they have....? I don't know, but I do know that there seems to be an awful lot of money sloshing around in the hobby beekeeping market. Maybe £160 every couple of years for a couple of queens would be as good an investment as any.

 

[Finman]

. Maybe £160 every couple of years for a couple of queens would be as good an investment as any.

But if the aim does not work, the beekeeper will see it very quickly.

And every couple of years queen change, it does not work so luckely.

 

[rolande]

But if the aim does not work, the beekeeper will see it very quickly.

And every couple of years queen change, it does not work so luckely.

No it doesn't, but you have to start somewhere and then roll with the situation as experience and necessity demand.

 

[Murox]

No it doesn't, but you have to start somewhere and then roll with the situation as experience and necessity demand.

So does that mean you have achieved little consistent genetic assimilation? i.e. the “hygienic” trait that you identified as the bees's response to the mite, becoming genetically encoded through your artificial selection/manipulation? I did wonder, have you encountered any identifiable deleterious effects in populations due to gene interactions or functional compensation by other genes ?

 

[Bazzer]

In my experience it is impossible to keep own stock in under 20 hives apiary. Original features are disapeared in two or in one year.

Yes - I think you need to have control over a much larger area than a single apiary
You might like to watch this presentation about commercial beekeeping using black bees

 

[Finman]

Yes - I think you need to have control over a much larger area than a single apiary
You might like to watch this presentation about commercial beekeeping using black bees

Why I should take care about professinal's business?

Control to large area? What does it mean.

During 60 years I have had my bees and apiaries, and I have woried about their genetics.

In my country we not have native bees.
90% are Italians. Even if a young queen seems to have mated with Italians, Italian breeds are many. Most breeds are not selected. They are Italian like breed mongrels.

For example swarming fever is difficult to control by breeding. A strickt selecting carry quickly into inbreeding. Just buying anti varroa queens does not bring you very far.

Breeding atempts in a small apiary will have no future. It is a way to dead end.

 

[Finman]

I did wonder, have you encountered any identifiable deleterious effects in populations due to gene interactions or functional compensation by other genes ?

If your ask from me, my genepool has ended several times to the inbreeding harms. One example is sensitivity to nosema.

Inbreeding is easy to find out. Every year I have bought from professional queen breeders 2-3 new queens. I have compared my old hives to the new colonies next summer. If the new colonies are much more better than old ones, I have drawn conclusions. But the new queens have not been allways better or even good. There is no quarantee, what you get, when you buy queens from professionals.

Via experience I can say that queen sellers are not the most honest persons in the world.
.

 

[thorn]

'senior' forum members.
Don't say things like that it gives them delusions of grandeur

Personally, I would prefer to work with the bees in my area to deal with the problems in my area.

He meant senior in the way it's used in adverts.

 

[thorn]

Pupae

But do drone start as pupi?

 

[rolande]

So does that mean you have achieved little consistent genetic assimilation? i.e. the “hygienic” trait that you identified as the bees's response to the mite, becoming genetically encoded through your artificial selection/manipulation? I did wonder, have you encountered any identifiable deleterious effects in populations due to gene interactions or functional compensation by other genes ?

I don't have a clue what you're talking about, that's why I mentioned in the earlier post that hobbyists may be interested in buying queen's from people who've already done the work for them.

 

[Bazzer]

Why I should take care about professinal's business?

Control to large area? What does it mean.

During 60 years I have had my bees and apiaries, and I have woried about their genetics.

In my country we not have native bees.
90% are Italians. Even if a young queen seems to have mated with Italians, Italian breeds are many. Most breeds are not selected. They are Italian like breed mongrels.

For example swarming fever is difficult to control by breeding. A strickt selecting carry quickly into inbreeding. Just buying anti varroa queens does not bring you very far.

Breeding atempts in a small apiary will have no future. It is a way to dead end.

The answers to some of your questions are in the video including a section on how to select for less swarmy bees - watch it if you want - I learnt a few things after my 50 years beekeeping.
Meanwhile I will continue breeding with my queens in a mating apiary and my drones spread over a large area - that way I can keep control of the genetics continuously.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

 

[Bazzer]

All we need to know is invite 'Master' Beekeeper and we can have a marathon **** measuring contest!

You have clearly misrepresented my position as an open-minded learner vs others who want to show us their appendages but then you are the one with the title..

 

[Finman]

and my drones spread over a large area - that way I can keep control of the genetics continuously.

So you control that British mating Isle... have controlled 50 years.

 

[Finman]

- I learnt a few things after my 50 years beekeeping.

It would be a miracle if you didn't

I have forgotten my few things

.

 

[Finman]

Hi finman I think I must be missing something in what you are saying or asking. I have read the BIP report and a few associated articles and cannot find a link Between high colony loses in USA and your info that they use a lot of vsh queens .the report as I understand it reflects 10% of managed colony’s.

There was a research of losses of backyard beekeepers, where it was said that biggest colony losses had those, which believed, that bees have natural ability to resist varroa. I do not know what kind of resistant bees they have in USA , but I know that they are many ways.

And I do not need to know everything what is happening there.

 

[Finman]

Original question

Who has here VSH queen or queens in his hives? In the UK.

.

 

[Moobee]

For the purpose of debate and not because I know , because I only know what I don’t know and some would say all that really matters is that I don’t know what I don’t know.. but I digress
It is a numbers game… in the natural state all basic bees without vsh and not treated would die out and then the vsh bees would be in the majority .
( I contend that those non treaters who are successful with their own strain may have bees with a naturally high vsh trate)
If the majority of beeks raise and protect bees by treating non vsh bees then the evolutionary development can’t occur …because VQs are more likely to mate with non vsh drones. only if more people use vsh queens than don’t will there be an impact on the general population.

Given how long it took the consensus on mactchstics to change etc it will I think take a long time for many to even consider such humbug ideas particularly when treating mites is easy and cheep.
Add to that the amm group will need someone to start not only raising amm pure but vsh amm pure.
If however vsh queens were shown by hobby keepers willing to be as productive etc as their other hives then slowly very slowly things might change????

But you are always going to get beekeepers who don’t agree with this method and plough their own path so it will never work. Look at other groups and see how many people think we should still be adding top ventilation