Do hives recycle old wax and can queen cells be made from recycled wax.

[Curly green finger's]

They often do that when setting up their 'dance floor' bees tend to have a specific comb to conduct their foraging waggle dances. It's pretty dark inside a hive so a lot of the information is transmitted by vibration. by nibbling the edges and detaching the comb from the frame sides and bottom the vibrations don't get damped.

I understand what your saying jbm, the pictures that Beefriendly put up were frames half chewed and the frames were quite old.
To me if I see bees recycling propolis which they do, why not wax, I'm trying to find the picture of the Queen cell that's made of dark older wax.

If a colony is unable to forage and they have minimal stores why wouldn't they use what's around them?
It would be an extra survival tactic surely?

 

[Curly green finger's]

I can see from color if combs are made from recycled wax. Sometimes I see light brown queen cells and sometimes white cells.

Sometimes bees tear down foundation and use wax somewhere else.

Hi finman are you saying then that qcs can be made from recycled wax and I'm not barking up the wrong tree?
Youve almost confirmed question two?
What about older wax being recycled?

 

[Curly green finger's]

Hi Mark, I'm glad you were okay with that.

Pity someone else tried to jump down my throat. Very unnecessary and only makes for unpleasantness.

You say; <Please vote Fred and everyones opinion counts. >

Sadly I'm neutral on this one but I hope others do.

Your poll is at the top of this page and I don't think readers know that.

Fred.

Don't get your back up about jbm he's a nice chap really.
As to finding the poll to vote, when folk look at the thread title there is a graph in the right hand corner click on that and it takes you to the opinion poll... Its right next to the beady eye!!
I don't think there's been a poll on here for a while.

 

[captain666]

Mark; < Don't get your back up about jbm he's a nice chap really. >

I had a look at the comments when he was 'appointed' a moderator, before my time, but a lot of posters would disagree with you.

However, people should be allowed to change, so we'll see.

Fred.

 

[understanding_bees]

I am intrigued by the question of whether or not bees recycle (or reuse) wax. I live in suburban Melbourne, Australia, and have had bees for just one year now. I had seen a TV documentary film, “The Great Australian Bee Challenge” which provided the incentive and impetus for me to study everything I could find on the subject of beekeeping. (This documentary consists of two episodes – each one about an hour long – and can still be viewed on Youtube. Just do a Google search for “The Great Australian Bee Challenge”).

There have been lots of comments made by beekeepers, about how “expensive” it is for bees to make new wax – about how much honey they must consume to produce a given amount of wax. I would certainly like to know if any definitive studies have been done to determine accurately the answer to this question. It seems to me that there would be significant benefit to both the bees and their keepers, if ways could be found to actively encourage bees to reuse wax which had previously been harvested or salvaged by beekeepers.

All of the answers I have heard (from beekeepers whom I have asked) have tended to be negative.

I made an interesting discovery a few months ago, in our Autumn, of a significant amount of empty comb freshly built upwards from the bottom of a new base which had been in use in a hive for only three months. There was enough of this new comb to fill a couple of coffee mugs, and it was very dark in colour, almost like the colour of dark chocolate. I asked around what this might be, and one beekeeper suggested that it was propolis – and this seems to me to be likely correct.

I like the idea expressed by another writer to this forum, about giving the bees some coloured wax. I wonder whether red or blue food colouring could be added to some melted wax? Or some other kind of colouring? In what form should such coloured wax be given to the bees? Foundation sheets? I am inclined to do some experimenting of my own in the next few weeks with Spring just around the corner here in Australia. I shall look with interest at any suggestions that other people may have.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Mark; < Don't get your back up about jbm he's a nice chap really. >

I had a look at the comments when he was 'appointed' a moderator, before my time, but a lot of posters would disagree with you.

However, people should be allowed to change, so we'll see.

Fred.

Indeed Fred maybe maybe not, after all your not talking to folk face to face on here.
sometimes how folk come across is OK for some and not for others.
Im only in my fifth season and I've had alot of help on here from both the mods and not to forget alot of other beeks that don't post that much.

I've been on other beekeeping forums but this one is by far the best for knowledge and versatility meaning there's some characters on here.

 

[captain666]

understanding; Welcome on board!

You ask; <....about how much honey they must consume to produce a given amount of wax. I would certainly like to know if any definitive studies have been done to determine accurately the answer to this question.>

I quote from Yates Study Notes, required reading for anyone taking the more serious beekeeping exams. or needing to improve their beekeeping knowledge.

" Wax is secreted at relatively high temperatures (33C - 35C) after consumption of large amounts of honey. Various estimates are quoted for the amount of honey to metabolise. 1lb of wax. 5-8lb being a realistic estimate."

Fred.

 

[Curly green finger's]

I am intrigued by the question of whether or not bees recycle (or reuse) wax. I live in suburban Melbourne, Australia, and have had bees for just one year now. I had seen a TV documentary film, “The Great Australian Bee Challenge” which provided the incentive and impetus for me to study everything I could find on the subject of beekeeping. (This documentary consists of two episodes – each one about an hour long – and can still be viewed on Youtube. Just do a Google search for “The Great Australian Bee Challenge”).

There have been lots of comments made by beekeepers, about how “expensive” it is for bees to make new wax – about how much honey they must consume to produce a given amount of wax. I would certainly like to know if any definitive studies have been done to determine accurately the answer to this question. It seems to me that there would be significant benefit to both the bees and their keepers, if ways could be found to actively encourage bees to reuse wax which had previously been harvested or salvaged by beekeepers.

All of the answers I have heard (from beekeepers whom I have asked) have tended to be negative.

I made an interesting discovery a few months ago, in our Autumn, of a significant amount of empty comb freshly built upwards from the bottom of a new base which had been in use in a hive for only three months. There was enough of this new comb to fill a couple of coffee mugs, and it was very dark in colour, almost like the colour of dark chocolate. I asked around what this might be, and one beekeeper suggested that it was propolis – and this seems to me to be likely correct.

I like the idea expressed by another writer to this forum, about giving the bees some coloured wax. I wonder whether red or blue food colouring could be added to some melted wax? Or some other kind of colouring? In what form should such coloured wax be given to the bees? Foundation sheets? I am inclined to do some experimenting of my own in the next few weeks with Spring just around the corner here in Australia. I shall look with interest at any suggestions that other people may have.

Hi thanks for your post, I know that beeks put die in there sugar syrup so they can identify the frames in the spring when they want to remove sugar honey frames,

I can't see it being a problem adding it to wax foundation that you would have to make, I wouldn't know how much to add though.
I also would be very interested in what your experiments come up with.
I will have a look at the great Australian bee challenge on Google over the next few days.
Thanks
Mark.

 

[Antipodes]

"All of the answers I have heard (from beekeepers whom I have asked) have tended to be negative."

Not trying to also be negative, but my thoughts are that because (apparently) wax accumulates toxins to some extent and can (apparently) harbour disease like AFB, I think it is probably good that bees make fresh wax rather than reuse old wax.

 

[Finman]

and can (apparently) harbour disease like AFB, I think it is probably good that bees make fresh wax rather than reuse old wax.

AFB does not become from old wax. And AFB is as well in new combs too.

When the comb is old enough, black or moulded, bees tear down the comb and build a new comb.

 

[Curly green finger's]

AFB does not become from old wax. And AFB is as well in new combs too.

When the comb is old enough, black or moulded, bees tear down the comb and build a new comb.

I've seen this happen when I've hived swarms. I've put in older frames of wax and they've teared it down in favour of making new comb.

 

[fiat500bee]

I can see from color if combs are made from recycled wax. Sometimes I see light brown queen cells and sometimes white cells.

Sometimes bees tear down foundation and use wax somewhere else.

Sounds pretty conclusive..

 

[captain666]

Hi Mark.

Poll is going pretty slow so I cast my opinion.

I voted 'no' to both, for while I'm somewhat neutral on this, until I see some credible evidence I have to come down on the side of 'no'. Besides there is no 'don't know' on the poll.

Fred.

 

[drdrday]

Not wanting to muddy the waters any further, but perhaps some additional options such as 'I don't know', 'I tend to think so', and 'I tend to think not' would be handy in the poll.
I certainly couldn't commit to just yes or no on this one.

Personally, I doubt they would re-use a chunk of wax given to them, but I do think they rework/re-mould wax. So I'm not quite sure whether that would be a yes or no from me.

My thoughts are only based on personal opinion and observations, which I think is what Mark is trying to canvass from us with this poll, just to get an idea of what our general consensus of opinion is.

I certainly don't have anything to prove it either way, although it would be a good experiment to trial.

 

[smitten]

It's an interesting point - play cups on brood frames are the same colour as the rest of the brood frame.

There may be a difference between remoulding wax, and recycling it by taking it to a new position.

 

[Curly green finger's]

I'll put a don't know option folks then you can change your votes if you wish
Thanks

 

[Finman]

I'll put a don't know option folks then you can change your votes if you wish
Thanks

You have eyes in your head. You surely know, if you have bees.

 

[Curly green finger's]

You have eyes in your head. You surely know, if you have bees.

That's why I've voted yes but as other people have requested a 'don't know option' then I have to oblige.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Not wanting to muddy the waters any further, but perhaps some additional options such as 'I don't know', 'I tend to think so', and 'I tend to think not' would be handy in the poll.
I certainly couldn't commit to just yes or no on this one.

Personally, I doubt they would re-use a chunk of wax given to them, but I do think they rework/re-mould wax. So I'm not quite sure whether that would be a yes or no from me.

My thoughts are only based on personal opinion and observations, which I think is what Mark is trying to canvass from us with this poll, just to get an idea of what our general consensus of opinion is.

I certainly don't have anything to prove it either way, although it would be a good experiment to trial.

Your basically asking for the same answers.. To me 'I tend to think so' is the same as saying ' yes' its an opinion poll after all.. If you think so then vote yes if not then vote no, if you don't know then vote for that.

 

[happyculteur]

Bees leave a bit of wax, like a small swelling, at the entrance to the cell after the egg is laid. Later they use this for capping the cell. If there's not enough they take some wax from nearby to use. Perhaps they do the same to cap a queen cell? When damage is small or there are cracks in comb they usually repair it with propolis.

I have read (perhaps Seeley?) that in wild colonies in trees if unused comb is not stiff from coccoons it can be recycled the next year.
To join another thread, the same source says that ideally entrance holes are fairly near the bottom. About 20% of cavity height below the entrance.