Did I do the right thing?

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The wild comb was all drone cells

often is - they were probably looking at the space for honey storage and often build larger cells to save time especially as it looks like you are still piling on the feed.

When do you think could be an appropriate weekend for a Demaree on this one? Give them another 2 weeks?

you need to inspect them properly, see how much brood they have, as well as taking in other factors - it's not something driven by dates, try looking at this:
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/demaree.46464/
I haven't even started inspecting yet apart from a few dip samples yesterday and on the weight of that I won't be getting excited about things or thinking of inspecting any more until we get proper decent weather

 

[ericbeaumont]

also have a look under the bottom BB, without disturbing any frames

Very, very unlikely to find anythong there as it's the coolest part of the hive, and bees will (if they decide to use that box) make them on the combs up in the warmth. However, as they have a brood super above, that is where QCs are most likely to be found, between the boxes or on the combs.

Sx/Surrey border and haven't even contemplated opening my colonies yet.

inspecting any more until we get proper decent weather

it's not something driven by dates

This is the heart of it, and reminds us that beekeeping is a three-part drama: weather, forage and bees. To avoid human struggle we must evaluate & integrate those factors continually; bees are way ahead of us, of course, and work that way already.

 

[user 819]

Pretty much very chilly here with the northerly breezes , temps barely in to double digits . Night temps barely above 3 or 4c at the mo.
Bees may be out foraging, cleansing flights or orientating but isn't at the mo an indication for me to open any up .

 

[Antipodes]

The wild comb was all drone cells. The hive hefts heavy with stores and is packed with bees.
Although I haven't done an inspection this year, due to the weather. I could have a look under the BB on Friday to see if there are swarm cells.

The comb you removed had eggs in every cell so I reckon they'll do the same with the cells (when drawn) in the second box you put on , plus they'll add honey in the frames too. I've got an uncle in Surrey, a lovely garden county with lots of urban forage and you've got a boomer there, you can see that. I didn't mind the smoke by the way, I thought you were trying to get the bees out of the comb with eggs in it (brood comb) before removing it, which seemed fair enough in the circumstances. I've not suggested inspections at all at this stage, but I'd reckon in about three weeks inspect in ernest. Do you know how old the queen is? What is the history of the colony last season?

 

[Paulypaul]

The comb you removed had eggs in every cell so I reckon they'll do the same with the cells (when drawn) in the second box you put on , plus they'll add honey in the frames too. I've got an uncle in Surrey, a lovely garden county with lots of urban forage and you've got a boomer there, you can see that. I didn't mind the smoke by the way, I thought you were trying to get the bees out of the comb with eggs in it (brood comb) before removing it, which seemed fair enough in the circumstances. I've not suggested inspections at all at this stage, but I'd reckon in about three weeks inspect in ernest. Do you know how old the queen is? What is the history of the colony last season?

She is either a F1 of F2 2023 Buckfast, from BS Honey Queens. I inherited her from a retiring beekeeper. I don't buy queens, myself.

Next hive is the same story. But I put a super on that one 2 weeks ago, which is now fully drawn and laid in. That Queen was part of a caught swarm. She had a faint yellow mark on her back. So, that one is a 2002 queen.

Both colonies are in an apiary I set up last autumn in an abandoned apiary in an affluent part of Surrey, with big houses and impressive gardens. So, I think your point about garden forage is a good one.

 

[ericbeaumont]

put a super on that one 2 weeks ago, which is now fully drawn and laid in

You may have concluded by now that adding a brood super is nowhere near enough when responding to the genetics and expansion to hand.

When I have colonies like that they're usually on triple brood by early summer; the third BB - with several centralised frames of open brood, to draw in wax makers and nurse bees - is added between the doubles.

By late summer the top BB will be full of honey and produce a good stock of drawn brood combs for the following season, provided it is protected from wax moth with Bruco.

 

[Antipodes]

She is either a F1 of F2 2023 Buckfast, from BS Honey Queens. I inherited her from a retiring beekeeper. I don't buy queens, myself.

Next hive is the same story. But I put a super on that one 2 weeks ago, which is now fully drawn and laid in. That Queen was part of a caught swarm. She had a faint yellow mark on her back. So, that one is a 2002 queen.

Both colonies are in an apiary I set up last autumn in an abandoned apiary in an affluent part of Surrey, with big houses and impressive gardens. So, I think your point about garden forage is a good one.

Ok, thanks. Well I don't agree with previous comments made on this post that those colonies are no more likely to swarm than any other. I think they are more likely to swarm when compared to younger smaller colonies with autumn queens for instance. Second year queens and older ( I think you mean 2022 queen in one hive) are definitely more likely to swarm than colonies with queens in their first year. In addition, these two are booming.
Climate and climate change is another thing to take into account. Buckfast bees inparticular there probably brooded all year. Look at the figures for the UK this year. Warmest February on record for England and Wales. 2.5+ warmer in Surrey compared to the average or perhaps even 3 degrees for the southern counties.That's really significant. Wetter and warmer winters with declining frosts. https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/about-us/press-office/news/weather-and-climate/2024/february-2024-warm-and-wet-for-the-uk#:~:text=Winter 2024&text=It's been milder than average,10 wettest for the UK.

 

[ericbeaumont]

trying to get the bees out of the comb with eggs in it (brood comb) before removing it

Break the comb off and shake it gently, or flick the bees off back into the box.

 

[Antipodes]

Break the comb off and shake it gently, or flick the bees off back into the box.

Sure, but I think given that there was a queen in there recently that making sure she wasn't there is fair enough. You don't really want to flick a queen off if you don't need to. Also, most of the smoke was missing them anyhow. Out of the 25 puffs of smoke, perhaps only half a dozen were really on target.

 

[Paulypaul]

Sure, but I think given that there was a queen in there recently that making sure she wasn't there is fair enough. You don't really want to flick a queen off if you don't need to. Also, most of the smoke was missing them anyhow. Out of the 25 puffs of smoke, perhaps only half a dozen were really on target.

My wife was on smoker duty. And she was up wind of the bees.

 

[Antipodes]

My wife was on smoker duty. And she was up wind of the bees.

She did well.

 

[plain_hunt]

Some of my colonies have come out of winter firing on all cylinders.
Upon inspection, one had built comb up into the upturned poly feeder.
Every cell had an egg in it.

I removed it all and plonked a deep of undrawn foundation on top.

View attachment 39335

I’ve got a colony like this, which I put a QE and a super on a week ago when I did a full inspection, which has drones in it. I am fully expecting this to be in swarm mode by the time the weather is warm enough for me to look in again. I think you did the right thing. I’d keep a look out for drones,in my experience they won’t swarm until there are drones in the colony, but one spell of weather that keeps them indoors means possible swarming follows with the next couple of dry days.
Yours obviously need the space, you did right to give it to them.

 

[ericbeaumont]

My wife was on smoker duty. And she was up wind of the bees

Had the Q been on the wild comb she would have gone down into the dark pretty sharpish once the roof and feeder were removed, and/or when the first puff of smoke appeared.

Continual smoke (like it often does) did not achieve much more than make the bees run around, and as the smoker was mostly upwind, it served no purpose.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

My wife was on smoker duty. And she was up wind of the bees.

way too much smoke - don't listen to the smoker obsessives, it's poor advice, especially if you are looking for the queen - she hates smoke and it's a surefire way of gettiing her to hide

 

[user 819]

I find it strange how some beeks panic at the sign of drone cells or drones within a colony. I myself harness them and try to ensure the colonies produce more then they need, providing foundationless combs encourages drone cell size and I find leads to an even more harmonious colony.
Lack of laying space, varroa overload is more condusive to swarming then having drones , unless one has really swarmy bees.

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

I find it strange how some beeks panic at the sign of drone cells or drones within a colony. I myself harness them and try to ensure the colonies produce more then they need, providing foundationless combs encourages drone cell size and I find leads to an even more harmonious colony.
Lack of laying space, varroa overload is more condusive to swarming then having drones , unless one has really swarmy bees.

I found brood in a super under the brood box that I was moving up today. Because I use drone brood in supers, the brood was all drone. Depending on your point of view, that could be a reason to use drone brood in supers.

Even if not for you, I don't think it does any harm, and I've found (I think) that there's less pollen in supers with drone foundation.

 

[Paulypaul]

Had time for a cursory inspection on Friday. The aforementioned colony that had filled the upturned poly feeder has only slightly drawn out a couple of frames of the super of foundation I added. Instead they have focused on filling the space between the lower shallow box and the new super with more brace comb.
Popped the preexisting shallow off and it's packed with uncharged queen cups...


3 neighbouring colonies are booming. Drones were spilling out of one hive (already on 3 shallows and a BB) - first time I've seen them in my apiary, as this is the 1st time I've had well established colonies.

Had a look at the other colonies by tipping up boxes and looking underneath, as it was 13c, so didn't feel appropriate to pull out frames.
Plenty of drone brood, no signs of varroa, didn't see any obvious queen cells, but 4 colonies are now packed with bees. So difficult to really see.
There are so many bees it took longer than usual to put the hives back together.

I replaced the undrawn super with a drawn one. I also added a drawn super to all the other strong colonies, which were over spilling with bees. I also added a BB of undrawn foundation under the existing BB for the strongest colonies. Unfortunately, I don't have drawn brood comb. My thinking being that they really need space, so at least that have some opportunity to expand the brood nest as the incoming nectar increases.

Usually, I can only get to the apiary at weekends, so my priority was to ensure they at least have space until I can do a proper inspection, when the temperature improves.

As it's a bank holiday, I do have time to look again tomorrow, it will be 14c.
Due to heavy wasp attacks last autumn, 1 colony is tiny and needs a boost. I'm considering inspecting the strongest colonies tomorrow and pulling out some frames if sealed brood and popping them in the tiny colony.

Any thoughts on all this?

Next 7 days weather forecast: low 7c, high 17c

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Popped the preexisting shallow off and it's packed with uncharged queen cups..

they are just play cups - they build them all the time.

 

[pargyle]

Any thoughts on all this?

Next 7 days weather forecast: low 7c, high 17c

I think you should stop fiddling about with them ...what are you actually hoping to achieve with these inspections,?

You already know they have enough stores, every day that goes by more stuff is coming into blossom but, unless you have OSR on the doorstep and it really warms up dramatically there is not going to be a big flow of nectar and without that flow they are unlikely to swarm ...

Playcups are just playcups, nothing to get excited about. Leave them be until we really see some CONSISTENT temperatures of 14 degrees or so ...

 

[Swarm]

Had time for a cursory inspection on Friday. The aforementioned colony that had filled the upturned poly feeder has only slightly drawn out a couple of frames of the super of foundation I added. Instead they have focused on filling the space between the lower shallow box and the new super with more brace comb.
Popped the preexisting shallow off and it's packed with uncharged queen cups...

3 neighbouring colonies are booming. Drones were spilling out of one hive (already on 3 shallows and a BB) - first time I've seen them in my apiary, as this is the 1st time I've had well established colonies.

Had a look at the other colonies by tipping up boxes and looking underneath, as it was 13c, so didn't feel appropriate to pull out frames.
Plenty of drone brood, no signs of varroa, didn't see any obvious queen cells, but 4 colonies are now packed with bees. So difficult to really see.
There are so many bees it took longer than usual to put the hives back together.

[BI replaced the undrawn super with a drawn one. I also added a drawn super to all the other strong colonies, which were over spilling with bees.[/B] I also added a BB of undrawn foundation under the existing BB for the strongest colonies. Unfortunately, I don't have drawn brood comb. My thinking being that they really need space, so at least that have some opportunity to expand the brood nest as the incoming nectar increases.

Usually, I can only get to the apiary at weekends, so my priority was to ensure they at least have space until I can do a proper inspection, when the temperature improves.

As it's a bank holiday, I do have time to look again tomorrow, it will be 14c.
Due to heavy wasp attacks last autumn, 1 colony is tiny and needs a boost. I'm considering inspecting the strongest colonies tomorrow and pulling out some frames if sealed brood and popping them in the tiny colony.

Any thoughts on all this?

Next 7 days weather forecast: low 7c, high 17c

Always a better idea to add drawn combs if you have them, they ignore foundation unless there is a good flow and a reason to draw new wax. Incoming nectar will be stored in any available cells so the empty, drawn combs give them somewhere other than the brood nest.
Don't move combs to the small colony, even sealed brood needs to be kept warm. I would wait until the conditions are more favourable and even then choose a comb of emerging brood to pick up numbers before considering if they need another.
At the same point (when it's warmer) take the brood box of foundation you added to the strong colony and put it on top of the other one, lift two or three central brood frames up into it from below, push the outer brood together and use the foundation frames to fill in either side.