Did I demaree my doublebrood correctly?

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The other thing I do is use a crownboard (under the top BB) with an entrance slot cut in the side and a piece of QE covering the feeding hole(s) so that the bees and especially the drones can exit the upper BB without having to travel down to the bottom BB.

Same here - just making some at the moment - beespace over the supers and beespace under top brood box with an entrance hole in. I've had a hole cut in the board with a piece of QX set into it to allow through movement, it ensures a good supply of young nurse bees.
You can, of course just put an additional QX above the 'supers' and then a narrow 10mm eke with an entrance in then the top broodbox. I always stack all the honey boxes above the bottom box and below the top box, Never had an issue with it - sometimes having five or six shallows there.

 

[MerryBee]

Same here - just making some at the moment - beespace over the supers and beespace under top brood box with an entrance hole in. I've had a hole cut in the board with a piece of QX set into it to allow through movement, it ensures a good supply of young nurse bees.
You can, of course just put an additional QX above the 'supers' and then a narrow 10mm eke with an entrance in then the top broodbox. I always stack all the honey boxes above the bottom box and below the top box, Never had an issue with it - sometimes having five or six shallows there.

JBM,

Apologies if I am being dense, but what is the point of a second QE below the upper brood box? There is already a QE above the lower brood box, thereby confining the Queen in the lowermost box

 

[oliver90owner]

There should not be any 'emergency' queen cells - the queen is still there but queen pheromones in the top box will be reduced - so only 'supercedure' cells will be built. These are few in number and usually large cells for that very reason. Good for making splits from suitable colonies.

You have all your bees, not like having to make an A/S, so good for nectar collection. The brood will have emerged in a couple or theee weeks time and those frames can be exchanged for those filling the lower brood box. Hence A/S can be delayed by several weeks. Not necessarily avoided, but done at a more convenient time for the beekeeper and the forage available.

 

[Finman]

JBM,

Apologies if I am being dense, but what is the point of a second QE below the upper brood box? There is already a QE above the lower brood box, thereby confining the Queen in the lowermost box

Good notice. No one is laying in topmost brood box.

 

[YorkshireBees]

JBM,

Apologies if I am being dense, but what is the point of a second QE below the upper brood box? There is already a QE above the lower brood box, thereby confining the Queen in the lowermost box

The QE or board with QE over the opening prevents your supers filling up with drones which then causes problems as they can't get out and also during super clearing.

 

[YorkshireBees]

There should not be any 'emergency' queen cells - the queen is still there but queen pheromones in the top box will be reduced - so only 'supercedure' cells will be built. These are few in number and usually large cells for that very reason. Good for making splits from suitable colonies.

You have all your bees, not like having to make an A/S, so good for nectar collection. The brood will have emerged in a couple or theee weeks time and those frames can be exchanged for those filling the lower brood box. Hence A/S can be delayed by several weeks. Not necessarily avoided, but done at a more convenient time for the beekeeper and the forage available.

This is exactly how I produce my Nucs every year.

Demaree reduces the amount of kit required and keeps a honey producing work force together, at least in my case it seems to work that way.

 

[Hivemaker.]

The QE or board with QE over the opening prevents your supers filling up with drones which then causes problems as they can't get out and also during super clearing.

Also hopefully prevents any virgin queen from a cell that may of been missed from entering the supers.

 

[YorkshireBees]

Same here - just making some at the moment - beespace over the supers and beespace under top brood box with an entrance hole in. I've had a hole cut in the board with a piece of QX set into it to allow through movement, it ensures a good supply of young nurse bees.
You can, of course just put an additional QX above the 'supers' and then a narrow 10mm eke with an entrance in then the top broodbox. I always stack all the honey boxes above the bottom box and below the top box, Never had an issue with it - sometimes having five or six shallows there.

You mean something like this!

 

[beeno]

There should not be any 'emergency' queen cells - the queen is still there but queen pheromones in the top box will be reduced - so only 'supercedure' cells will be built. These are few in number and usually large cells for that very reason. Good for making splits from suitable colonies.

You have all your bees, not like having to make an A/S, so good for nectar collection. The brood will have emerged in a couple or theee weeks time and those frames can be exchanged for those filling the lower brood box. Hence A/S can be delayed by several weeks. Not necessarily avoided, but done at a more convenient time for the beekeeper and the forage available.

We have already established that there is no queen in the top box because of the QX on top of the bottom box, so any QC raised will be from an egg laid in worker brood which by definition is an emergency cell. If the colony is strong, on a flow, with not too old comb then emergency cell will be perfectly adequate, but it is a secondary not a primary cell. Tried it myself (by accident) and got six beautiful large QC's and two queens.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

JBM,

Apologies if I am being dense, but what is the point of a second QE below the upper brood box? There is already a QE above the lower brood box, thereby confining the Queen in the lowermost box

The upper QX is to stop any drones emerging in the top box from getting into the supers and getting trapped there im more manipulations take place - the upper entrance also means they can get out and go wherever they want, you may also want to rear a new queen in the top box and eventually squish the older queen in the bottom. the upper QX isn't essential but the upper entrance is IMO

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

There should not be any 'emergency' queen cells - the queen is still there but queen pheromones in the top box will be reduced - so only 'supercedure' cells will be built. These are few in number and usually large cells for that very reason. Good for making splits from suitable colonies.

You have all your bees, not like having to make an A/S, so good for nectar collection. The brood will have emerged in a couple or theee weeks time and those frames can be exchanged for those filling the lower brood box. Hence A/S can be delayed by several weeks. Not necessarily avoided, but done at a more convenient time for the beekeeper and the forage available.

Demarree's original manipulation was to continually swap emptied brood frames from the top with brood from the bottom thus ensuring there is always laying space for the queen. This would continue until swarming fever had passed

We have already established that there is no queen in the top box because of the QX on top of the bottom box, so any QC raised will be from an egg laid in worker brood which by definition is an emergency cell.

Not really - nurse bees in the top box will still be getting a whiff (although weak) of queen pheremone thus you won't get the scattergun panic approach of QC's of emergency cell forming. But a few good quality supersedure type cells with plenty of younger nurse bees to make quality royal jelly. Technically neither term is correct but supersedure is a heck of a lot closer to the truth than emergency as the workers looking after the brood in the top box are convinced the queen is still alive but running out of juice.

 

[MerryBee]

Many thanks JBM and others for your explanation. I am intending to try out a Demaree this year, and I now realise I definitely need an upper entrance and preferably some sort of upper QE.

Some quick construction coming up this weekend !

 

[oliver90owner]

There is no emergency if the queen is present in the colony. Simple as that.

 

[Obee1]

:

Not really - nurse bees in the top box will still be getting a whiff (although weak) of queen pheremone thus you won't get the scattergun panic approach of QC's of emergency cell forming. But a few good quality supersedure type cells with plenty of younger nurse bees to make quality royal jelly. Technically neither term is correct but supersedure is a heck of a lot closer to the truth than emergency as the workers looking after the brood in the top box are convinced the queen is still alive but running out of juice.

Thanks jbm
Two thoughts-
Is there much of a difference between using a normal QE under the top box or using a solid board with a partial area of QE? The amount of queen pheromone travelling upstairs must be greatly reduced with the partial excluder. Maybe with the full excluder it takes a while for them to worry and start cell building by which time there no young eggs - till the beek rotates frames in?

If I want to run a 2 queen system for a while with daughter in the attic - mum in the basement - I will obviously need that uppermost entrance. Do I thin the cells down to one or could I just leave them to decide as they aren't swarm cells. If I'm going to let them decide should I not disturb the upper box till virgin gets mated? I'm notoriously bad at virgin spotting and worry I would remove her by mistake.

 

[Loubylou]

I am going to try the demaree for the first time too. But I have bought Snelgrove boards for below the top BB rather than using the QX. Any advice as to pros and cons?

 

[Obee1]

I am going to try the demaree for the first time too. But I have bought Snelgrove boards for below the top BB rather than using the QX. Any advice as to pros and cons?

Are you going to be switching the entrances or just leave one open constantly as per jbm?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Thanks jbm
Two thoughts-
Is there much of a difference between using a normal QE under the top box or using a solid board with a partial area of QE? The amount of queen pheromone travelling upstairs must be greatly reduced with the partial excluder.

It works with both but if you are aiming to produce QC's for increase it's much better to utilise a solid board with a small QX aperture - you could just put a feeder board on for a few days with a piece of mesh over the holes to get them going and then replace with a QX

If I want to run a 2 queen system for a while with daughter in the attic - mum in the basement - I will obviously need that uppermost entrance. Do I thin the cells down to one

Yes, otherwise you run the risk of inducing a swarm.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

G*d I'm jealous.

 

[beeno]

Now, let's stick to the vernacular guys. If a QC is not developed from a queen cup, but in a worker cell then it is an emergency queen cell - X principle. You may get some handsome emergency QCs if it is a strong colony, good flow, and newish combs, but it is still an Emergency Cell.
May I refer you to the literature published by the Welsh Assembly Government 'There are queen cells in my hive - what should I do?

 

[Tremyfro]

If I should ever have a colony strong enough to warrant demarreeing....I'm glad by then they will be in long hives...and it would just be a sideways shuffle!! All that lifting arrrgh...fills me with horror. Imagine slipping and dropping the top box!