Demaree

[bees knees]

Just done demaree on 3 colonies. It's the first time I've tried this so feeling a bit nervous. Had a lot of problems with swarming last year so decided to try and prevent it this year. All colonies were pretty full in the BB and one had started building / filling early queen cells which I removed.

Would be great to hear from others who have experience with demaree. Pros and cons? Successes and failures? Any extra pieces of advice welcome.

 

[HM Honey]

Just done the same with one of my colonies today. I must have caught them just in time because there were two SEALED queen cells when I went in today. I'd noticed a couple of early cells earlier in the week and thought I'd knocked them all down then but obviously missed a couple. Anyway, the queen was still there and the colony was full to the brim with bees so I have set up a demaree and knocked down all cells in the old brood box. I made bloody sure to get them all this time as well by shaking the bees off every frame and checking meticulously for cells so I am very confident that I didn't miss any this time.

The queen is currently in the bottom box with new foundation and one frame of unsealed brood, all sandwiched between two queen excluders (one below and one above the brood box) so she shouldn't be able to go anywhere.

Don't forget to go in in 5 days time and knock down any queen cells in the top box.

 

[enrico]

As per the last sentence of HM
don't leave the bb until it is full of honey as I did, really heavy to lift!
The idea is to do it again if necessary but I found I ended up with loads of brood comb that I didn't really need!
However, it works a treat, is easy and kept my bees together in the main flow so loads of honey!
E

 

[Hivemaker.]

Would be great to hear from others who have experience with demaree. Pros and cons? Successes and failures? Any extra pieces of advice welcome.

Generally best to demaree ahead of swarming preparations, starting with a hive on double brood plus supers...one or more supers, queen into bottom box with as many empty (broodless) drawn combs as possible, then queen excluder with supers on top, and another queen excluder on top of supers (i use ones framed on three sides giving an entrance facing the same way as the lower one, or just flight boards with excluder over hole) followed by box full of frames of brood in the top box, check this box after nine days or so and destroy any emergency queen cells. When most of the brood has emerged in the top box and the queen has layed up the lower box rotate the boxes leaving the queen in the bottom box with the empty combs again, and add supers in between as needed, on the last rotation the top box can be left to fill with stores if desired, and then placed down onto lower box for winter feed, after removal of supers for extraction..unless of course you wish to extract the top deep frames and feed. If using foundation it works better in reverse, queen in top box with foundation.

 

[enrico]

Thanks for that hivemaker...... That has helped me out no end! I didn't quite do it like that, I always used fresh foundation in the box with the queen, hence ending up with far too much brood comb!
E

 

[HM Honey]

check this box after nine days or so and destroy any emergency queen cells.

Nine Days ? Surely you mean 5 days don't you Hivemaker?

If you wait for the cells in the top box to be sealed, the old queen may swarm. Knock the queen cells down after 5-6 days. By that time the remaining brood is too old for new cells to be made.

Agree though, Demaree is best used as a swarm preventer, not a swarm solution. I was in a position where I found queen cells on my first inspection of the year though.....

 

[Hivemaker.]

Nine Days ? Surely you mean 5 days don't you Hivemaker?

No... i mean nine days.

 

[HM Honey]

No... i mean nine days.

Well, I submit to your superior knowledge and experience as this is the first one I have done, but nine days goes against everything that I have read or previously been told?

Surely the old queen will swarm with sealed cells in the hive (even if they are a couple of supers above her? Is that not the case?

 

[REDWOOD]

put him out of his misery Pete

 

[HM Honey]

put him out of his misery Pete

Jeez, I think killing me is a little extreme Redwood......

 

[mbc]

The queen is currently in the bottom box with new foundation and one frame of unsealed brood, all sandwiched between two queen excluders (one below and one above the brood box) so she shouldn't be able to go anywhere.

If left like this for any length of time it will cause distressed drones and will also be wasteful of pollen resources as much of their pollen will be knocked off as they pass through the excluder.
I also like a top entrance if I put hives in this format but make do with just a small slot cut in the excluder frame or a small auger hole in the top box.

 

[HM Honey]

If left like this for any length of time it will cause distressed drones and will also be wasteful of pollen resources as much of their pollen will be knocked off as they pass through the excluder.
I also like a top entrance if I put hives in this format but make do with just a small slot cut in the excluder frame or a small auger hole in the top box.

The bottom QE will be removed once I am sure the queen is laying in the bottom box so there are no drones in this box to get stressed. The exact set up that I have used from top down is:

Roof
Crown board
Old Brood Box (this box has its own entrance set 90 degrees to the bottom entrance)
Demaree Board
Super
QE
New Brood Box (With fresh foundation and one frame with unsealed brood)
QE
Floor

 

[mbc]

The bottom QE will be removed once I am sure the queen is laying in the bottom box so there are no drones in this box to get stressed. The exact set up that I have used from top down is:

Roof
Crown board
Old Brood Box (this box has its own entrance set 90 degrees to the bottom entrance)
Demaree Board
Super
QE
New Brood Box (With fresh foundation and one frame with unsealed brood)
QE
Floor

OK, well done

 

[HM Honey]

Come on Hivemaker....put me out of my misery.... I am intrigued by this 9 days method ??

Why wont the old Queen swarm with sealed cells? Am I missing something obvious ?

 

[HM Honey]

OK, well done

Wish I could take any credit mbc, but this method comes from 30 minutes of grinding my mentor into the ground with millions of questions.....lol

This is the first year I have been proactive regarding swarms. Its my 2nd full season and the 2 hives I had last year both swarmed while I was on holiday..... Doh !!!

 

[mbc]

Come on Hivemaker....put me out of my misery.... I am intrigued by this 9 days method ??

Why wont the old Queen swarm with sealed cells? Am I missing something obvious ?

 

[HM Honey]

"slaps his own forehead"

So yes, the answer is I WAS missing something bloody obvious.....lol

Thanks mbc (Hivemaker was obviously in a mood to make me suffer....lol)

 

[HM Honey]

Is clipping the queen very effective at preventing swarming? I know obviously she cant fly away but I have heard stories of her trying to leave and dying on the ground in front of the hive?

 

[mbc]

The scissors inthe photo are particularly good because of the general quality and the rounded tips make it harder to damage valuable queens with pointy things;
http://www.fiskars.eu/Kitchen-House...rs/859806-Classic-Round-tip-manicure-scissors

 

[mbc]

Is clipping the queen very effective at preventing swarming? I know obviously she cant fly away but I have heard stories of her trying to leave and dying on the ground in front of the hive?

Just buys you time, hence Hivemakers nine days